TRETINOIN THREAD 5

[rae]

^ I agree. Na-i-immune ang skin in the sense that you get more tolerant with the side effects e.g. peeling, redness, and dryness.

But the benefit of faster skin cell turnover and the side effect of photosensitivity are still there.

If I'm correct, yung mga blend ng tretinoin + hydroquinone or hydroquinone itself, yun yung kelangan magkaron ng resting time. Every 2 months of continuous use, dapat mag-stop, lalo na yung mga darker skinned folks

[WickedWitchOfTheWest]

^I agree din na those using the tret+hq combo should stop every few months.. Personally, i rest after 3 months of continued use, kahit anong sabi ng derma. I've asked a derma who advised continued use of the combo as maintenance and sabi niya limited lang naman daw cases of side effects but I've read about the side effects and nakaka-praning din, better to be safe na lang.

[berrycherry]

sa mga matagal ng tret users here, how long did you achieve yung parang natural na rosy cheeks?

[rae]

^ Background story first: I started with the .1%, the highest. I didn't know anything about tretinoin then, pero yun yung prescribed ng dermatologist. I just used whatever it is she gave me. That was in 2009. She also had me undergo TCA, so by the 2nd or 3rd week I was all clear with rosy cheeks that wasn't so obvious on me because I'm not fair-skinned.

[sales_lady]

So pwede pala mag-tca if naka-tret sis?

[rae]

^ the derm doc prescribed it, kasama sa treatment plan that she made.

20% tca lang daw, tapos she didn't leave it that long. Parang superficial peel lang.

[inc0gnito]

To those curious if they can use AHAs (glycolic), BHAs (salicylic acid), L-Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) with tretinoin, here's a very good post I found: http://www.futurederm.com/2012/11/19/can-you-really-use-retinoids-with-aha-bha-and-l-ascorbic-acid-or-not/

Bottom line:

"...If you’re the type of person for whom “good enough” is fine in skin care, then go ahead, keep applying retinoids and acids together.  However, for the maximum result from your acidic and retinol products, apply them separately.  The class of enzymes necessary for retinol activation - dehydrogenases – function best at a more neutral pH. In addition, acidic products increase skin’s exfoliation (and hence sensitivity).  So it’s best for both form and function to apply these products separately."

^Copied from the link I posted above

[WickedWitchOfTheWest]

^Interesting. While I do agree that the right pH is required for certain products to work more efficiently, studies and personal experience have shown that AHAs enhance the penetration of retinoids, when the base is appropriate. While in terms of individual efficiency, you may safely get the better expected result from using a single active - best if you have sensitive skin. Mixing several actives are best left to the professionals, that's why I always suggest that one consult a dermatologist prior to mixing as trial and error can be more damaging. Locally, derm-compounded products are created to work together, you don't have this option in the US so the assumption does not easily apply.

[rae]

^^ Seems logical.

Though I've had good experience with a salicylic acid face wash + salicylic acid toner + tretinoin. Tretinoin alone couldn't remove my blackheads.

I think my skin is pretty tolerant and I do wait a couple of minutes before putting on tret when I do this routine.

Anyway, I noticed that the articles says "retinol activation - dehydrogenases", I don't think retinoic acid(tretinoin) undergoes this activation, as opposed to retinols. The former is already active. Retinols need to be activated for it to become retinoic acid.

[inc0gnito]

@WickedWitchOfTheWest Though I'm far from being a professional or skin care expert, I can definitely say that it all boils down in knowing YOUR skin. I have reactive, very oily skin type; possible Fitzpatrick type III or IV. Aside from penetration enhancers (i.e. AHAs) there are more factors to consider when taking into account product's depth of penetration (take for example a 10% Vitamin C serum - a person w/ Fitzpatrick type I skin would have greater penetration than a person with type III/IV - this is a fact). Not to discredit our local dermas, but you'd be surprised to know most of them are conservative.

On a side note, my Clear just ran out and to cut costs, I've been using Maxipeel #4 and I'm pleased to say that it works good. 

[nikita27]

hi I'm newbie here
 I'm using RDL HQ+Tret #3 and after 2days na gamit nag peel nako sa pang 3days ko so I stop using Rdl kasi I'm scared na baka masunog ang face ko.. pang 5days ko na nagayon sa Rdl at ang nag pe-peel na lang sakin yung lower part ng cheeks ko and forehead so I decided to apply the rdl again.. ask ko lang sana kung ok lang kaya yun kahit na may part na nagpe-peel pa? magpantay kaya ang color ng face ko?
this is my 1st time to used rdl so na ngangapa pako. but infairness naman medyo nag clear yung part ng face ko na walang pimple. I hope may mag reply thanks

[WickedWitchOfTheWest]

^I noticed that too and and was remembering an article I read years ago which basically says retinols go through a process of conversion in the skin, that in some cases render them ineffective when compared to retinaldehydes and tretinoin.

[inc0gnito]

@nikita27 Hi I'm a newbie too, and I'm a guy. With regards to RDL, this works in the same vein as Obagi, combining hydroquinone + tretinoin (I'm not saying RDL is an alternative to the whole system) as the star ingredients. I have personally used RDL #3 before with suprisingly good results. Don't be afraid of the peeling, as this would have the same effects of using tretinoin. You're face would be quite red for a few weeks, and of course, lots of peeling involved. On the 3rd month, that's where I noticed my skin become really taut and line free, dark spots and blemishes were erased to the point of becoming invsible, and my pores were the finest they have been. I stopped after that though, alternating w/ Obagi Clear.

Note: Make sure to apply a high-spf sunblock, preferably physical based (look for Zinc Oxide and Titanium Dioxide as the ingredeints). This has the bonus of keeping your face matte and blurring slight skin imperfections (esp good in covering up the redness).

[rae]

@incognito, I vouch for maxipeel #4 too.

When I was still using CHAT 2% and ran out (Belo/ Aesthetic Science Clinic), I bought Maxipeel. :p

(Note: CHAT = clindamycin, hydroquinone, alum, tretinoin)

[WickedWitchOfTheWest]

@WickedWitchOfTheWest Though I'm far from being a professional or skin care expert, I can definitely say that it all boils down in knowing YOUR skin. I have reactive, very oily skin type; possible Fitzpatrick type III or IV. Aside from penetration enhancers (i.e. AHAs) there are more factors to consider when taking into account product's depth of penetration (take for example a 10% Vitamin C serum - a person w/ Fitzpatrick type I skin would have greater penetration than a person with type III/IV - this is a fact). Not to discredit our local dermas, but you'd be surprised to know most of them are conservative.

My point was you can't generalize skincare. Sensitivity is always an issue and as I said in my previous post, mixing is always best left to the professionals as they are more aware of the risks and limitations, and can provide a better gauge of what your skin can tolerate. I was reacting to your post as I didn't find the whole issue of mixing products as simple as that.

I prefer Leslie Baumann's 16 Skintypes, which I think covers more base than the Fitzpatrick system. Her ingredient guide is quite informative, but her product recs, a hit or miss. Still her system is quite revolutionary.

On the contrary, I find most local dermas too liberated -- they are not liable to lawsuit as doctors in the US are. Hence, the loose prescription of oral isotretinoin. And I KNOW local dermas and their products as I've been to more than several since I was 12 years old.

[ldevera]

hi again ...may nakapag try naba from beauche to tretinoin cream for maintenance?

[nikita27]

@nikita27 Hi I'm a newbie too, and I'm a guy. With regards to RDL, this works in the same vein as Obagi, combining hydroquinone + tretinoin (I'm not saying RDL is an alternative to the whole system) as the star ingredients. I have personally used RDL #3 before with suprisingly good results. Don't be afraid of the peeling, as this would have the same effects of using tretinoin. You're face would be quite red for a few weeks, and of course, lots of peeling involved. On the 3rd month, that's where I noticed my skin become really taut and line free, dark spots and blemishes were erased to the point of becoming invsible, and my pores were the finest they have been. I stopped after that though, alternating w/ Obagi Clear.

Note: Make sure to apply a high-spf sunblock, preferably physical based (look for Zinc Oxide and Titanium Dioxide as the ingredeints). This has the bonus of keeping your face matte and blurring slight skin imperfections (esp good in covering up the redness).

thank you sa advise.. and yes i see the result on my face and i love it nawala yung mga dark spot ko (what I mean is nag lighten na) I tried those Expensive product and na disappoint lang ako dahil nagka pimple lang ako at hindi naman nawala ang dark sopt ko sobrang na depress nako dahil sa pimple, dark spot and milia na nag sulputan ng sabay sabay sa face ko. at least now nawala yung dark spot ko at na dry yung pimple ko even my milia natatanggal na rin im so happy sa result wala pang weeks, days palang pero kita ko na result..

ask ko lang if nag stop kang mag apply ng rdl pag nag pepeel yung skin mo? may "pahinga stage ka ba"

[honeybunny]

Sis, you don't have to stop tret unless you're trying to conceive or are pregnant or lactating. Skin tends to get immune to certain products like topical antibiotics but there's no basis naman for tret. If you do feel na your skin is getting used to it, you can always shift to a higher percentage, apply more frequently or enhance penetration by using an AHA cleanser or toner.

If you're asking if you need Alpha Hydrox, I don't suggest applying it prior to tret as the base is a cream and can also act as a barrier to tret's penetration. Depende din kasi sa formulation ng product, whether it will help or not. My suggestion is you feel tret is not working well enough on it's own for you, consult a derma if you have access, kasi mas better ang marerecommend niya na regimen. Using AHA with tret can be very irritating and the irritation is much more difficult to reverse

As for regenerist, you can apply it in the morning, but again, better to be safe than play around with multiple actives. Personally, my skin is very, very resistant to most topical meds and I've been to several derms who helped me with my regimen and I can't say that what worked for me will work for you.

My regimen is also very aggressive, in fact so aggressive na after 3 months of consistent use, i'm still peeling ang flaking. My skin turns red quite easily as well. I've decided to rest for a couple of weeks just to "normalize" my skin. Nakaka-miss din ang oily skin when your skin is always flaky and you can't wear makeup properly.

Oic. Thanks sis

[pumngold]

@incognito, I vouch for maxipeel #4 too.

When I was still using CHAT 2% and ran out (Belo/ Aesthetic Science Clinic), I bought Maxipeel. :p

(Note: CHAT = clindamycin, hydroquinone, alum, tretinoin)

i didnt know chat has tretinoin na pala. and so the essentia. parang matapang pala kapag sabay.siguro i will stop the essentia.

[rae]

^ Yep, CHAT is pretty aggressive na din on its own.
It always had tretinoin, I believe, because of the T in CHAT.

Anyway, for some reason, the derm prescribed essentia (tretinoin) on me pa rin. Kaya mabilis yung effect sakin nung program na binigay sakin before.