All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9

[mrsamurao]

Those medical jargons can sometimes become a hindrance to understanding clearly what this is all about especially for people who would not take time to even research it.  It just like reading a good novel, we would always encounter words unfamiliar to us and a lot of people would be feel its a hassle to pause for a dictionary and learn what it meant.

I think that when it comes to our children's health, most moms here are diligent and responsible enough to seek better understanding. Hindi siya parang nagbasa ka lang ng novel and encountered a highfalutin word tapos deadma na. Sa ibang bagay siguro pwede lumipad yun pero not when it comes to our kids.

Even if we are to remove the possibility that autism is caused by vaccine but acknowledge the rest like food allegies, learning disability including those two medical conditions above etc   its not like these conditions are any less traumatic for mothers to face. Once our child gets hit bottomline is we are on our own facing this lifetime problem with all accompanying medical expenses that will surely drain our resources.

The thing is, you cannot keep arguing things like food allergies, learning disabilities and even autism against vaccines for the simple reason that there is not enough data yet to clearly link all of them together. Pwera pa dun, ang daming factors involved that can trigger these things like genetic predisposition, environment and diet. Opting to not have your child vaccinated doesn't guarantee that he/she will not suffer from the things you think a vaccinated child can suffer from because unvacccinated children can also get allergies. They, too, can suffer from learning disabilities and even get diagnosed for autism. Tama si Doc Lelet when she asked you if in the sad event that your child gets bitten by a dog or steps on a rusty nail.. will you not have him/her vaccinated?

Totoo naman na there are risks involved but I think this is where a good, trusting relationship with your pediatrician comes into play. Kasi, given the amount of misinformation on the internet, I think it is wise to get your information from established and reputable sources kesa sa mga bloggers or non-experts. Like with my son's pedia, umpisa pa lang I already told her about my fears about vaccines so tanggap na niya na praning ako. In an effort to reassure me, aside from keeping me informed about the benefits and risks, she also made me see an allergist so that an immunological testing can be done on my son. That way, we'll know daw if my son is allergic to one of the vaccine components.

fear and guilt are two powerful methods that would make someone lose proper perspective on the issue and I was made to understand that in my search for vaccine dangers over the net.

I think fear is the main reason why parents decide not to have their children vaccinated. As to whether or not it makes them lose their perspective on the issue, as you say.. I don't think you and I are in the position to assume anything. When Andrew Wakefield's Lancet paper came out, it spread fear among people that MMR vaccination rates suddenly dropped--ang ending, incidence of mumps and measles significantly increased. Kahit ikaw mismo. I don't think you just woke up one day and decided to not have your child vaccinated just for the heck of it. I'm sure may reason why you decided to opt out. Please don't tell me na hindi ka natakot. Did it make you lose perspective? Only you can say whether it did or not.  Kasi ako, natakot din ako. Like I said in my previous post, the reason why I decided to have my son vaccinated is because I'm afraid that he might catch measles or whooping cough. Did my fear make me lose my perspective? I can certainly say it did not. If anything, it just made me more vigilant.

Anyhoo, this is all I have to say about this matter. Like Doc Lelet, I apologize din to the rest of the moms who go particularly to this thread for getting myself involved in this issue. Allura, if you want to continue informing others about the dangers of vaccines, may I suggest you make a new thread about it? Yung mga moms/dads kasi who post here ask questions about the vaccines they give to their kids kaya ibalik na natin itong thread na ito to the way it was before-- with the hope that Doc Lelet, too, will return. 

[allura]

I think that when it comes to our children's health, most moms here are diligent and responsible enough to seek better understanding.

I believe only a few people here knew what ferbrile seizure and intussuception meant and the seriousness of its implication before and after it was mentioned.   It could be the first time a lot of mothers here ever heard of it.

I think fear is the main reason why parents decide not to have their children vaccinated. As to whether or not it makes them lose their perspective on the issue, as you say.. I don't think you and I are in the position to assume anything..........................Like I said in my previous post, the reason why I decided to have my son vaccinated is because I'm afraid that he might catch measles or whooping cough. Did my fear make me lose my perspective? I can certainly say it did not. If anything, it just made me more vigilant.

You are correct but it works both ways.   Using fear to stop you from injecting or using it to have you injected.   It comes down to which side you believe intuitively gave the correct advice.   The result was you and I choose to do this differently.

Allura, if you want to continue informing others about the dangers of vaccines, may I suggest you make a new thread about it? Yung mga moms/dads kasi who post here ask questions about the vaccines they give to their kids kaya ibalik na natin itong thread na ito to the way it was before 

Before I began I knew I would be facing very stiff opposition because it was going against the general knowledge and belief.   In short Im was going against the herd thinking.  To even consider that possibility was blasphemy and you will be shot down & ridiculed.  Its like asking the catholic church to acknowledge reincarnation as a possibility and you know what will happen next.  but I persisted because I believe im saving lives by informing people the seriousness of this implication.   If it was ignored so be it and to some that would saved their lives im happy I did something for them as it did for my child as long as I don't force the issue.


I don't think I need to do a separate thread if majority of moms followed intently the discussion because my job is done.  If it spark the curiousity of most people to pause and say, "there must be something about this on why so many websites out there are rallying against it if it was very beneficial."  then that's good but if all I did was riled up the masses instead of awakening them then at least i can say i took the risk to do something than forever wonder the "what ifs"

[leletmd]

I apologize to the readers of this forum for getting sidetracked for a while. I decided to visit GT today since I received some PMs of mothers asking about their children and I realized that I should not let this incident stop me from doing what I have been doing for the past years. Thank you also to our sisses here who understood my position.
Anyway, just to address this issue for the last time:

One, if you backread too im against vaccine not doctors when I started posting about it thru links but you were the first one to respond to condemn such articles because you do not believe in it so I responded in kind with merely more links not attacks until you made it personal on your own free will.

Condemn is such a strong word. As I mentioned before, I post in this forum to correct patient misconception and to promote patient education. When articles bearing misinformation are posted, I think I have the duty to correct the misinformation based on whatever facts I know regarding the case.

I think any doctor will get offended if posts like these are made repeatedly. Let me just quote a few:

Months after reading those articles and research including testimonies they advise that I should had just avoided this discussion with them because vaccine is pediatricians bread and butter so there is no way they would acknowledge that as even a possibility (hanap buhay lang talaga) and second, a lot of them don't really know about this in a deeper sense and they just parrot what they had been trained to say regarding this topic.

From the ADHD thread:
"Don't ask the pediatrician since vaccines are their bread and butter so they would not endanger their livelihood by confirming this if they are even aware.   I posted one article (vaccination thread) on how to counter those doctors that give you guilt feeling when you are having doubts with vaccine but someone erased it intentionally because it must have threatened their host or livelihood or belief.

There is another way of confirming yourself the truth of this matter by asking your pediatrician w/o letting them know your real reason for it by asking the package insert of the vaccines.   Package insert are those folded pieces of paper with a description of the drug and instruction manuals usually found if you bought a box 100pc of tablets/capsule or bottled medicine.   You'll find it written those possible side effects like autism etc contrary to doctors claiming otherwise."

You do not need to deceive your pedia just to get the vaccine insert. Most pedias give it away so that parents will be able to read more information regarding the vaccine.

If the objective is merely to inform, then 1. there is no need to discredit others who do not share the same view as yours and 2. there is no need to teach parents here to lie to their pediatricians/doctors. Trust is very important in any patient - doctor relationship. 

And regarding the autism - vaccination link, as I mentioned before, this has been debunked already countless of times, but for the purpose of discussion, let me cite what happened in Japan. They decided to remove the MMR vaccine because of fears of autism and they replaced it with mono-vaccines of Measles, mumps and rubella starting 1992. Contrary to what is expected, cases of autism in Japan increased since the withdrawal of the MMR vaccine as cited in this study: (in a way proving that there was a different cause for the rise of autism in their country)

http://www.medicine.ox.ac.uk/bandolier/booth/vaccines/nommr.html

Anyhow, this is the last time I will address this issue whether or not she decides to leave the thread. I chose to leave before because the discussion was no longer healthy. But, our sisses are right, this incident should not stop me from sharing information to other mothers or helping others.


Back to regular programming:
@loline:
No problem if the 4th dose of PCV was given later at 18 months.

@DV, marose17, mrsamurao, lgf08:
Thank you.

Lastly, sharing this blog post that a friend shared yesterday. I am not anti-blogger. I am just against those blogs promoting misinformation. Anyway, number 7 reminded me of this thread:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/valerie-alexander/things-you-should-never-say_b_4172469.html

[daveigh]

^ thank you for coming back, doc Lelet! One thing kasi for sure that I am against too is when somebody posts misinforming blogs. Sure there are some who just makes you think twice, pero its a different thing to generalize kasi na lahat ay masama.

Sis allura:

One thing for sure we dont question posters just because of the number of posts. You simply used such strong words on vaccines na admit it, saved millions of lives. And one thing for sure, hindi yan bread & butter ng mga pedia dahil mismong pedia ko sinabi na kung wala nga ang vaccines eh mas kikita pa sila sa dami ng batang magkakasakit. I even had issues on rotavirus & nilinaw naman nya sa akin ang mga alinlangan ko so I think you just came across a pedia na wala nang panahon to explain. Let's admit it may pedia na ganun pero hindi naman din tama na lahatin natin sila na mukhang pera.

I hope you find the right pedia for you.

[mrsamurao]

I believe only a few people here knew what ferbrile seizure and intussuception meant and the seriousness of its implication before and after it was mentioned.   It could be the first time a lot of mothers here ever heard of it.

I don't think you have the right to assume that. You need to give the moms here more credit than that.

But I persisted because I believe im saving lives by informing people the seriousness of this implication.   If it was ignored so be it and to some that would saved their lives im happy I did something for them as it did for my child as long as I don't force the issue.

My problem with you, Allura, is that you say you just wanted to inform pero the thing is, you don't give concrete data to actually support your claims. How is that helpful? I mean, if you really want to-- and i quote: "save lives by informing people the seriousness of this implication"-- well then, please provide us conclusive scientific evidence made by a qualified and reputable expert that will show the connection between these vaccines and the diseases (by qualified, I mean someone who has proper educational background and experience and by reputable, I mean someone whose medical license has not been taken away) because until you do, you're only spreading fear for no reason and honestly, we don't need that in this thread.

Plus, uulitin ko.. if you think vaccines are "poisons," does this mean you won't have your child vaccinated even if he gets infected by a rusty nail or makagat ng aso? Or worse, kung biglang magkaron ng measles outbreak dito?

ANYWAY--

Welcome back, Doc Lelet!  My son had his separate MMR+V shot last June. His pedia is asking me if I want to have his 2nd dose before the year ends or wait kami until he turns 4. How do you think I should go about it? Thanks in advance!

[Priceless]

^Speaking of measles outbreak, just this year nagkaroon nyan sa UK. At nagkandarapa ang mga parents (and even adults) to have their kids (or themselves) vaccinated.

Imagine kung hindi tayo vaccinated, hindi ba one of the fears during pregnancy is to contract measles?

[lgf08]

^Sa pregnant women, ang nakakatakot na type ng measles na makuha is German Measles (Rubella) because it can cause congenital rubella in developing babies.. pero sympre kahit anong measles sana wag ma-infect especially pregnant and babies..

[pinkswirls12]

i have nothing against moms who chose not to have their children vaccinated. i know someone who was not vaccinated and he is healthy but his mother was viewed as weird by her co workers. from what i have experienced, i will never ever place my child in a vulnerable situation. when i was 3 months pregnant, i was suspected of contracting german measles. my mother cannot remember if i was vaccinated with mmr and i cannot recall having german measles. i was so stressed for 2 weeks and thank God for a miracle that my blood test was negative for german measles but it was positive for measles. my OB told me that it may not be measles and just a viral exanthem. but still until the day i gave birth, i was so worried to what my daughter's condition will be. is she blind, deaf or mentally retarded? my point here is we cannot control our child's every action to keep them from getting sick most especially the environment. i worked in an infectious hosp before and only there i witnessed that there are still children getting sick of pertussis and i saw the agony of the kids with tracheostomy and the painful spasms because of tetanus. those are diseases that can be prevented by vaccines right? i have a daughter and she will bear a child in the future and i dont want her to experience what i have been through during my pregnancy. prevention is better than cure and one prevention available is to have our child vaccinated but still it is up to the parents to decide on what is best for their children. 

[shenshen8]

The illnesses prevented by vaccines are very real. Even anti-vaccine people will not dispute that. So if there's a reason we should avoid vaccines, there has to be a valid medical proof. I've been looking for some but I haven't found any... I'm scared also, I'm about to give birth   pero I think it's irresponsible to just listen to anecdotal evidence and risk my kid getting seriously sick
I'm going to exclusively breastfeed and I think I'll get most vaccinations (still not sold on flu vaccine), in order to give my kid the best defense.
But that's just me...

[sweetscience]

subscribing! i gave birth last nov8 sa TMC.. from the breakdown of expenses, ang nakita ko eh hepa b at vit k vaccines lang ang ibinigay kay baby. Dinala namin si baby sa pedia (our preferred one..not the one present nung nanganak ako) at tinanong kung may BCG si baby.. sabi ko di ako sure pero parang wala kasi wala dun sa breakdown.. sabi ni pedia parang part ng philhealth package ang hepa b at bcg vaccines.. kung ganun nga ang case, bakit di binigyan ng bcg si baby? may nakausap kasi akong mommy na nanganak din sa TMC at same pedia yung present nung nanganak din siya, wala nga daw bcg na binigay kasi bumalik sila dun sa pedia na yun for follow up..

[Cheesecak3]

My son has autism but I never let him have MMR vaccines before I knew that he has autism. Nabasa ko non na ang MMR vaccine can cause autism kaya hindi ako pumayag na ibigay sa anak ko pero kahit na hindi ko sya pinabigyan ng MMR lumabas pa rin na meron syang autism. I found out that he has autism when he's 3 years old.  It just proves na kahit pa anong gawin nating ingat pagdating sa vaccines pero kung may autism talaga ang bata hindi natin masisisi sa vaccines.

I hope this is clear now, and I even asked different doctors about it the relationship between autism and MMR pero lahat sila nagsasabi na hindi yon ang dahilan kung bakit nagkaroon ng autism ang bata. Maraming factor kung bakit nagkaroon ng autism ang bata at hindi natin pwedeng isisi sa vaccines lang.

Until now wala naman talagang basis kung bakit nagkaroon ng autism at kung bakit dumadami. Maybe it is because of the environment, food that we eat or sa genes na talaga.

[leletmd]

^ Thank you for sharing that, sis Cheesecak3.

@sweetscience:
Usually, sa big hospitals, included na talaga ang BCG and hepatitis B vaccines as part of their newborn package. The best thing to do would be to call the Department of Pediatrics and clarify with them if BCG was indeed not given to your child. If nabigay na, please also ask where they injected it so that you know where to monitor for scar formation.

@shenshen8:
Breastmilk is considered as baby's first vaccine since colostrum is very rich with antibodies. If you are exclusively breastfeeding, you can opt not to have the rotavirus vaccine given since breastmilk gives adequate protection against rotavirus and you can also opt to delay giving the pneumococcal conjugate vaccine (although, I suggest that you have this given pa rin later on since this is a very important vaccine to be given)...Of course, you have to discuss this with your pedia first since some pedias still require the rotavirus vaccine even for breasfted babies.

@Priceless:
lgf08 is correct. It is Rubella or german measles that is more frightening to have while pregnant since exposure during the 1st trimester may lead to congenital malformations such as deafness, blindness, congenital heart disease, etc. This is the reason why it is very important to have the 2 doses of the MMR vaccine given before the child bearing age.

@mrsamurao:
The rationale behind giving the 2nd dose of MMR and the varicella vaccines at 4 to 6 years of age is to protect kids entering school at that time. Mas malaki kasi ang chance ng exposure during school entry. Yung 1 kong friend, pinahabol ang 2nd dose of varicella vaccine ng son niya since marami daw cases of chickenpox sa school nila lately. Sa isa namang day care center near one of my clinics, according to 2 Mommies, maraming cases ng mumps lately.  So if you are planning to enroll your kid early, you may opt to have the 2nd dose given earlier than 4 to 6 years of age.
Side effects include a possible bout of fever and rashes similar to measles and chickenpox (if the 4 in 1 is given) 1 to 2 weeks after vaccination so I suggest you don't schedule it near the holidays para di naman kawawa si baby.

[cutie_05]

^Hi DocLetlet! I have a question regarding hepa A vaccine.  Paano kung hindi siya maibigay kay baby dun sa time na dapat bigyan siya (18-24 mos)? may effect ba iyon for the baby? Late ko na kase nakita na yung time na dapat ishot yun kay baby is 18-24 mos.  eh 2 na si baby.  Thanks po!

[mrsamurao]

Okay. Thank you, Doc Lelet! Maybe I'll have him get it next year na lang para happy baby siya this Christmas.

[leletmd]

^ You're welcome.

@cutie_05:
The effect of delayed vaccination is the risk of getting the disease during the time he or she has not received the vaccine yet.
Pwedeng pwede pa naman ihabol ang Hepatitis A vaccine ni baby kahit 2 years old na siya. Hepatitis A vaccine is given as a 2 dose vaccine series, 6 to 12 months apart. The first dose is recommended to be given at 12 months of age with the 2nd dose given at 18 to 24 months of age.

[allura]

please provide us conclusive scientific evidence made by a qualified and reputable expert that will show the connection between these vaccines and the diseases (by qualified, I mean someone who has proper educational background and experience and by reputable, I mean someone whose medical license has not been taken away) because until you do, you're only spreading fear for no reason and honestly, we don't need that in this thread.

• -- Would you consider your child consuming even tiny amounts of formaldehyde?
  
  -- Would you like Acetone inside your body?
  
  -- How about a component called ammonium sulfate?
  
  -- Perhaps a sufficient dose of monosodium L glutamate is good for your baby?
  
  -- Is it okay for you to ingest Thimerosal?
  
  -- An ingredient from a shampoo perhaps?
  
  -- Coal tar or petroleum in our system?
  
  -- Aluminum?

-- Monkey kidney or chicken embryo?

If none of the list appeals to you then you are definitely not alone.  Nobody is crazy enough to put this on ourselves let alone our babies if they knew.  Yet, are you aware that these and so many other deadly ingredients are in a component comprised in vaccines?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_vaccine_ingredients



Formalin or formaldehyde is a toxic chemical used as preservative for the dead among others.

Acetone is also a flammable toxic chemical used for removing nail polish among others.

Ammonium sulfate is the commercial use for soil fertilizer.

Monosodium glutamate or Vetsin/MSG as popularly added in dishes is a neurotoxin which you can ask your local health conscious community why they dislike it.

Thiomersal/Thimerosal which features mercury.  a poisonous substance used to extract gold or your old thermometer with silver goo which is banned.

Polysorbate,  check your shampoo, detergent, cosmetics ingredients.

Phenol is derived from coal tar or from petroleum- yes, gas & diesel.

Monkey kidney or chicken embryo!?!  No way...nonsense yet it is a listed ingredient.



I don't think I need to list the definition of each ingredient with links because it a verifiable fact from our own chemistry books or websites that has nothing to do with anti-vaccine websites explaining to you their commercial uses.


Now, ask your pediatrician to name 3-4 ingredients from a vaccine and see if they have the guts to tell you in your face FORMALIN as one of their primary component. 

And in the event they DO,  they might say state, " ang liit lang naman nilagay eh."   the next thing to ask is how much BEE VENOM STING does it take to cause ANAPHYLAXIS?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaphylaxis
http://www.anaphylaxis.org.uk/what-is-anaphylaxis/signs-and-symptoms

[cutie_05]

^ You're welcome.

@cutie_05:
The effect of delayed vaccination is the risk of getting the disease during the time he or she has not received the vaccine yet.
Pwedeng pwede pa naman ihabol ang Hepatitis A vaccine ni baby kahit 2 years old na siya. Hepatitis A vaccine is given as a 2 dose vaccine series, 6 to 12 months apart. The first dose is recommended to be given at 12 months of age with the 2nd dose given at 18 to 24 months of age.

oh i see.  Thanks po uli!

[m3lody]

Doc Lelet, is there an effect if two different brands of vaccine are given?  kunwari yung first dose ng pcv was synflorix pero yung 2nd dose (and the succeeding doses) eh prevnar 13 ang naibigay? TIA!

[Priceless]

FDA study reinforces no safety concerns from residual formaldehyde in some infant vaccines
 

The amount of formaldehyde present in some infant vaccines is so small compared to the concentration that occurs naturally in the body that it does not pose a safety concern, according to a study using a mathematical model developed by scientists at the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA).
                                                                                         
Formaldehyde has a long history of safe use in the manufacture of certain viral and bacterial vaccines. It is used to inactivate viruses so that they don’t cause disease (e.g., polio virus used to make polio vaccine) and to detoxify bacterial toxins (e.g., the toxin used to make diphtheria vaccine). Formaldehyde is diluted during the vaccine manufacturing process, but residual quantities of formaldehyde may be found in some current vaccines.
 
Formaldehyde is also produced naturally in the human body. It is essential for the production of some basic biological materials, such as certain amino acids. Amino acids are necessary for important life processes as they are the building blocks of proteins in the body.

Formaldehyde is also found in the environment. For example, it is used in the manufacture of building materials, as a preservative for specimens in labs and to make many household products.
The latest research has shown that the highest risk of harmful effects from formaldehyde is from breathing it, and this occurs more frequently in people who routinely use formaldehyde in their jobs.
 
Exposure to formaldehyde from vaccines differs from environmental exposure because the small amount of formaldehyde via injection with a vaccine occurs briefly and only occasionally.
 
When the body breaks down formaldehyde it does not distinguish between formaldehyde from vaccines and that which is naturally produced or environmental.
 
Using modeling, the FDA scientists assessed the concentrations of formaldehyde in the blood and total body water of a hypothetical 2-month-old infant following injection of formaldehyde containing vaccines into the muscle at a single medical visit.
 
They compared this estimate with the natural levels of formaldehyde that occur in the body. The model considered the natural reactions in the body that process formaldehyde and how long it would take for these processes to occur.
 
To ensure that the model did not underestimate the amount of formaldehyde the infant was exposed to, the FDA scientists assumed that the hypothetical 2-month old infant was in the 10th percentile for age-weight relationship for the United States. Such an infant would receive the highest maximum exposure to vaccine formaldehyde relative to its weight.
 
Based on a maximal level of 200 micrograms of formaldehyde exposure from vaccination, the FDA model showed that the majority of the formaldehyde is essentially completely removed from the injection site within 30 minutes. The majority of the formaldehyde is broken down (metabolized) in the muscle and any remaining formaldehyde enters the bloodstream and body water. The model showed that at its highest concentration this remaining formaldehyde is less than 1% of the existing, naturally occurring level of formaldehyde in the body. The FDA scientists note that the natural level of formaldehyde in the body is more than 100 times higher than that found in vaccines. Moreover, there are no known adverse health affects from this naturally occurring formaldehyde. They concluded that the temporary presence of a very small amount of additional formaldehyde contributed by vaccination would pose no safety concerns.
 
This study is part of a rigorous and ongoing evaluation of the safety of biological products for which FDA has oversight.
 
 
Title
 
“Pharmacokinetic modeling as an approach to assessing the safety of residual formaldehyde in infant vaccines”
 
Article in Press Vaccine (2013)
 
Authors
 
Robert J. Mitkusa, Maureen A. Hessb, and Sorell L. Schwartza,c
 
aOffice of Biostatistics and Epidemiology U.S. FDA Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, Rockville, MD 20852
 
bOffice of Vaccines Research and Review, U.S. FDA Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, Rockville, MD 20852
 
cDepartment of Pharmacology and Physiology, Georgetown University Medical Center, Washington, DC, 20057

[Priceless]

Sis Allura:

Ano kaya you create your own thread rather than posting your stuff in this thread?

It is very obvious that you have strong feelings and beliefs about the dangers of vaccines, and perhaps your personal reasons for doing so/having them are valid. However, since this thread is mostly for those mommies who already have decided to give or have given their children vaccines, perhaps your campaign to convince them about the dangers of vaccines is already a moot point and only serves to generate inaccurate, unnecessary and irrational fear.

Baka mas makatulong pa yun sa ibang mommies na nagdedecide pa lang kung gusto ba nilang ipa-vaccinate ang anak nila or hindi yung thread mo. Suggestion lang naman po.

And thank you for highlighting the ingredients of vaccines, napunta tuloy ako sa mga links at FDA websites where I have learned that most of these are NATURALLY OCCURING and are even found/produced by the human body.