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Author Topic: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9  (Read 169691 times)

daveigh

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Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #400 on: November 14, 2013, 05:46:54 pm »
^ Sis, to be fair lang ha. Every single medicine/vaccine, even the world's safest paracetamol, has a side effect. Why? Because they are all foreign to our bodies.  Nasa leaflet yan ng bawat gamot. So pag may lagnat anak mo hindi mo ba sya papainumin ng tempra?

I raised my concern on vaccines with my doctor too, and he patiently explained to me every single medicine has risks. Ngayon, we have to choose aling risk ang pipiliin ko.

My son has G6PD and very much forbidden ang anti-malarial drugs sa kanya (and a lot on the list) or else he'll have hemolytic anemia. Paano if he gets malaria? Dun na daw namin dapat i-weigh ang risks. Same with all vaccines, not all people, and of course including babies, may have side effects. PERO, are the side effects worth more noticing than not having the vaccines of MMR, IPD, etc?

Please wag mo naman lahatin ang vaccines as POISON, it's like saying all criminals ay masama. Your pedia might have not explained it well, pero I suggest you change pedia if you are not able to explain your thoughts as a parent. And also, maraming babies na ang nasagip ng tinatawag mong poison.

Be wary din nang nababasa mo sa internet, not all true sis. I am not saying wag maniwala, pero be wary din.

My pedia has been a pedia for 30 plus years, so I am very much confident of his expertise & the very thing he explains every single detail to me. YES, even the dangers of every vaccine.

Just my two cents.

allura

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Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #401 on: November 14, 2013, 09:25:39 pm »
^ Sis, to be fair lang ha. Every single medicine/vaccine, even the world's safest paracetamol, has a side effect. Why? Because they are all foreign to our bodies.  Nasa leaflet yan ng bawat gamot. So pag may lagnat anak mo hindi mo ba sya papainumin ng tempra?



Sis, sinabi ba ng pedia mo na ang possible side effects ng vaccine ay autism, seizures, asthma, ADHD, food allergies, learning disabilities, overweight?    o lagnat, tantrums, lost of sleep and other mild side effects lang.

But, as always im here to inform all of you not force the issue.    Akin lang kasi I felt lucky that I accidentally came across to this matter, so after months of plowing through many articles on the net that are being exposed by various unrelated/unaffiliated websites , I made up my mind that there really must be something here for people to warn against this.   

So in gratitude it is my turn to warn others because I felt it saved my childs life, and now im doing my part thru this forum and leave it to mothers to believe or not.    What matters is that I did my contribution in exposing all this but the awakening is all up to the readers.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2013, 09:30:41 pm by allura »

daveigh

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Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #402 on: November 15, 2013, 06:25:23 pm »
^ Yes,  I was informed by my pedia in very extreme cases it is. I also read that in the internet. But with Autism & ADHD, that is being disputed pa, no concrete evidence.

I would like to hear Doc Lelet's take on this.

allura

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Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #403 on: November 16, 2013, 12:26:31 am »
^ Yes,  I was informed by my pedia in very extreme cases it is. I also read that in the internet. But with Autism & ADHD, that is being disputed pa, no concrete evidence.

I would like to hear Doc Lelet's take on this.


If you back read she already did.   She does not believe any of this.

forumera

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Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #404 on: November 16, 2013, 08:07:54 am »
Here is the sistuation
TH- nagsimula lagnatin si baby
FRI- may lagnat pa rin, yun pa la nagngingipin, 4 yung umuusbong sabay sabay
SAT- nakasked siya mag MMR at Varicella, medyo may sinat pa siya now. Okay lang ba ipavaccine ko mamaya? He is 1 year old. I need urgent advice mamaya na yung schedule e. TIA

DV

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Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #405 on: November 16, 2013, 10:42:52 am »
^Our pedia's advice usually pag may lagnat, hold muna ang shots. Pag may sipon o ubo ang anak ko, I also inform her na ire-resched muna namin ang vaccinations kasi I want my child to be completely healthy muna para at least tama ang response ng body nya.

^^Doc Lelet already made her position on page 19.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 10:55:13 am by DV »

daveigh

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Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #406 on: November 16, 2013, 12:02:28 pm »
^ oh i see, i just saw it. thanks for letting me know.

as a parent, i always make sure to read esp on vaccines & meds as my son is a G6pd positive baby.

 my piece would be, not everything you read on the internet is true, esp. blogs as they tend to, i repeat : tend to, be biased. not all blogs do but as they are blogs, personal take on everything.

i might be offtopic. my apologies.

leletmd

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Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #407 on: November 16, 2013, 08:21:15 pm »
Sorry for the long post.
As I mentioned several times in this thread and in other threads, any medication, whether synthetic or homeopathic carry the risk of adverse reactions or side effects. Not everyone will get side effects nor can we predict who will get side effects unless, there are special risk factors cited. Example, it is better to avoid giving the whole cell pertussis type of DPT vaccine in a child with a family history of seizures since there is a higher chance of developing seizures and there is a risk of encephalopathy in such children.
Pediatricians have the duty to inform parents of possible side effects of any medication we prescribe, whether vaccines or not. We continuously keep abreast of latest findings by attending conferences, reading evidence based medical journals.  We verify data we read in scientific journals by conducting meta-analyses. We do not rely on testimonial evidence nor do we base our information on blogs (no offence meant to bloggers out there) since testimonial evidence and internet blogs carry a lot of bias since it is subject to the author's interpretation. The so called un-affiliated blogs posted are not really "un - affiliated". They are known anti-vaccine blogs. I have read most of them and I shudder at how some bloggers have twisted information just to scare readers into thinking that vaccines are really "poison". In one particular blog, the one that said that big pharma admits that the flu vaccine can cause autism where the blogger posted the vaccine insert, you will never find "autism" in the list of adverse reactions. Instead, the blogger insinuated that Leigh syndrome, which is a known genetic mitochondria encephalopathy is autism since it supposedly shares a lot of the symptoms of autism. Tsk, tsk, tsk…
I might sound like a broken record already, but as I mentioned before, before vaccines are released into the market, it undergoes several phases of trials that takes several years. After it is released, it also undergoes post - surveillance studies. Also, there is an immunologic basis as to the age of introduction of vaccines. Age of introduction is based on how long the particular maternal antibodies stay in the immune system of an infant and the risk of disease at that particular age depending on the immaturity of the immune system. Example, maternal antibodies to Diphtheria, pertussis and tetanus do not stay in the infant blood for too long and usually disappears a few weeks after birth which is why there is a need to give the vaccine to these diseases early. Filipino maternal antibodies to measles usually disappear by 6 months of age which is why there are a lot of cases of Infantile measles (which carries a lot of risks since it might lead to Sub acute sclerosing encephalitis). This is the reason why we give the measles vaccine at 6 to 9 months of age as opposed to Caucasian babies who only get vaccinated with MMR at 12 months of age since their maternal measles antibodies usually stay until 12 months of age.
As I mentioned also before, the main study linking the MMR vaccine to autism was found to be a fraudulent study. Andrew wakefield, the author of the study, was found guilty of fabricating data mainly because he was paid to do so and also because, he was in the process of patenting his own measles vaccine. The MMR vaccine also never contained thimerosal. And as of the year 2000, vaccine manufacturers have removed thimerosal from all paediatric vaccines even when evidence has pointed out that thimerosal doesn't cause autism. It is unfortunate that, despite several vaccine courts disputing the link, the anti-vaccine movement still holds on to this fraudulent study.

@allura, please post the link to the medical article that cites that vaccines can cause asthma and allergies. No blogs please. Even in the hygiene hypothesis, vaccines are not included as a risk factor for developing allergies or asthma. Risk factors include: early use of antibiotics, cesarian birth, firs birth order, etc. Yes, there is a risk of developing allergic reactions to vaccines. Same risk as taking other meds, whether synthetic or homeopathic but getting vaccinated doesn't predispose you to developing allergic diseases such as allergic rhinitis, eczema or asthma.

And to parents out there, between the pediatrician who has trained for several years to treat children and to prevent disease and the paid mis-"informed" blogger, who will you believe? I am saddened by the demeaning description of paediatricians. We do not give out vaccines just to earn money. It is our duty to prevent disease and to make sure our patients stay healthy.

@forumera:
It would be best to have your baby recover first from his current illness before having him vaccinated since both MMR and varicella are live vaccines.
Technically, high grade fever is the only contraindication to vaccination but of course, you have to take into consideration, the well being of the baby before vaccinating. Best pa rin to bring your baby to the pedia for a check up since he still has low grade fever till now.

@shawliin:
Fever is a common side effect of most vaccines, but not every one will get fever. It depends on how the immune system responds to the vaccine.

@ tzikenn:
2 doses dapat ang Varicella vaccine: 1st dose at 12 months of age then 2nd dose at 4 to 6 years of age. At 1 dose, there is still a chance for your child to get varicella or chickenpox, but there is long lasting immunity after the 2nd dose.
Pwede ihabol ang PCV 4th dose kahit several months pa ang lumipas, but of course, your baby still has the risk of getting pneumococcal infections since hindi pa siya complete sa required number of doses niya.

@ephemeralichi
You're welcome

@wittyjen:
You can go to the CDC website and print the catch up schedule for HIB so you can show it to your pedia. Ask na rin your pedia as to why there is a need for 4 doses of Hib since she may have a different reason for recommending this.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 09:57:57 pm by leletmd »

wittyjen

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Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #408 on: November 17, 2013, 01:30:00 am »

@wittyjen:
You can go to the CDC website and print the catch up schedule for HIB so you can show it to your pedia. Ask na rin your pedia as to why there is a need for 4 doses of Hib since she may have a different reason for recommending this.

tnx doclelet , i'll print that out :)

allura

  • Guest
Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #409 on: November 17, 2013, 03:36:01 pm »
And to parents out there, between the pediatrician who has trained for several years to treat children and to prevent disease and the paid mis-"informed" blogger, who will you believe?



This is the problem here, I have 79 post while the doctor has 1859 post,  You know how forum works i'll will be discredited on this basis alone because "hindi pa ganun ka established yung presence ko para paniwalaan"  but you see I  post not one but a lot of different website , links, news reports for mothers here to get a feel of what this is all about and if they are interested they will research on their own independent of what I posted or drop all this as nonsense.   

I must reiterate,  all I did is to inform - to give mothers an informed choice but it will still come down to your own free will.   I was confronted with this same demeanor when I asked my pediatrician about vaccine dangers back when I was a newbie in all of this and she did exactly the same thing got really pissed off and paraded her qualifications that she knows better than me and I should leave the decisions to the experts. Exactly the same, kaya nga not all mother will be steel willed to stand her ground and give in to this pressure tactics.


Oh, and I am not paid.  Maybe if I had been a forumer here long enough perhaps I wouldn't be call paid.   The pharmaceutical industry will literally lose billions of dollars worldwide if the entire world populace got wind of this, the movement is growing just like the 99% rally last year but not yet enough.  and of course medical practitioners will lose their livelihood irrespective if they really knew about this or not.  All doctors heard about this but only relatively few knew the entire spectrum of this story and most of the time their are just trained and educated to respond in a certain way if this issue comes up.

as always,  its up to you and would request people not to mind this debate between two individual and concentrate rather on the issue of vaccine danger alone.  Independently research for your childs sake and decide for yourself not by me or any doctors.

leletmd

  • Guest
Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #410 on: November 18, 2013, 12:44:30 am »
^ When I said paid bloggers, I certainly did not mean you. Are you a blogger? I was referring to the numerous anti-vaccine blogs you have posted. Feel free to post as much as you want. This is a forum after all. I was not really going to reply to your post anymore since whatever I post may just be misconstrued as biased but I was asked by daveigh for my input so I replied.
The main reason I started posting in this forum several years ago was to correct misconception and to promote patient education, not just on vaccines, but also on other health topics as well. If you had bothered to back read, you would know that I had posted information about vaccines here, whether good or bad, such as the risk of febrile seizures with the 1st dose of MMRV or the risk of intussusception with the rotavirus vaccine but no, I will not agree with your posts on the autism - vaccination link when that link has been proven to be false so many times.
You have discredited and maligned medical professionals in your posts so I think I have the right to react. Do you want me to react positively to your post maligning medical professionals? You do not trust doctors. That is very evident in your posts. If you do not trust your doctor, then no matter what he or she tells you, you will always have doubts. Trust is very important in a doctor - patient relationship.
Call me idealistic, but I believe that medical professionals are here to help and not harm, to give guidance and to protect children and patients. Sure, we charge for our services when patients go to our clinic so that we have money to feed our families but that doesn't mean that whatever service we give to our patients, we do so only because we get paid. Medicine is a vocation, it is a calling, it is a profession of service. What we will not do is to fabricate data to serve our own purpose like what Andrew Wakefield did.
The vaccines that you are calling "poison" have saved millions of lives worldwide. It has freed our kids from polio, diphtheria, tetanus, etc. If your kid was bitten by a rabid dog, will you not have him injected with the rabies vaccine or have him given the rabies immunoglobulin? If he steps on a rusty nail, will you not go to the ER to have him vaccinated with the tetanus vaccine? The diseases that vaccines give protection to are fatal and debilitating diseases so I believe that doctors have the right to be angry when wrong information is fed to patients and parents.
Nevertheless, I apologize to our sisses here for getting provoked to answer back. This is the last post that I will be posting in this forum. I believe that I have shared enough of my time, given and equipped you with enough information to make your own sound decision. Whatever future posts I make in this forum may be deemed as biased so I am making this decision to say goodbye to girltalk.
For more information on vaccines, you can visit the CDC website and the ACIP website. The information shared there is unbiased. I wish you all good health.

DV

  • Guest
Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #411 on: November 18, 2013, 11:20:12 am »
^Doc Lelet, dftt na lang po. Hahaha. I think all the other mothers here agree that you have been most helpful with all the information you have given us. If they just blindly followed their doctors or believed information read on the internet, they wouldn't be asking you questions. Thank you, Doc Lelet!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 11:47:12 am by DV »

marose17

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Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #412 on: November 18, 2013, 11:37:24 am »
^^ Doc Lelet, I have learned much from your very informative posts.  Do not let one stray member discourage you from informing other mothers.  Let the members of this forum decide for themselves whose piece/s of advice they will believe.


tzikenn

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Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #413 on: November 19, 2013, 10:08:25 am »
thank you doc lelet! :)

lahat naman tayo na mother dito sa forum na to ang gusto ay kung ano ang makakbuti sa baby natin. so it up to every mom what to believe and what to be given to our child.

loline

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Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #414 on: November 19, 2013, 12:32:08 pm »
hi doc lelet,

may side effect po ba kung naibigay yung 4th dose ng IPV ng 18 months pa lang ang baby ko?  thank you.

allura

  • Guest
Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #415 on: November 20, 2013, 12:22:03 pm »
One, if you backread too im against vaccine not doctors when I started posting about it thru links but you were the first one to respond to condemn such articles because you do not believe in it so I responded in kind with merely more links not attacks until you made it personal on your own free will.




If you had bothered to back read, you would know that I had posted information about vaccines here, whether good or bad, such as the risk of febrile seizures with the 1st dose of MMRV or the risk of intussusception with the rotavirus vaccine


This is just only two mentioned out of several others and since most people don't understand including me those medical terms I posted in behalf of everybody what these means.





Intussusception


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intussusception_(medical_disorder)

An intussusception is a medical condition in which a part of the intestine has invaginated into another section of intestine, similar to the way in which the parts of a collapsible telescope slide into one another.[1] This can often result in an obstruction. The part that prolapses into the other is called the intussusceptum, and the part that receives it is called the intussuscipiens.


Signs and symptoms


Early symptoms can include nausea, vomiting (sometimes bile stained (green color)), pulling legs to the chest area, and intermittent moderate to severe cramping abdominal pain. Pain is intermittent not because the intussusception temporarily resolves, but because the intussuscepted bowel segment transiently stops contracting. Later signs include rectal bleeding, often with "red currant jelly" stool (stool mixed with blood and mucus), and lethargy. Physical examination may reveal a "sausage-shaped" mass felt upon palpation of the abdomen.

In children or those too young to communicate their symptoms verbally, they may cry, draw their knees up to their chest or experience dyspnea (difficult or painful breathing) with paroxysms of pain.

Fever is not a symptom of intussusception. However, intussusception can cause a loop of bowel to become necrotic, secondary to ischemia due to compression to arterial blood supply. This leads to perforation and sepsis, which causes fever.


Prognosis

Intussusception may become a medical emergency if not treated early, as it will eventually cause death if not reduced. In developing countries where medical hospitals are not easily accessible, especially when the occurrence of intussusception is complicated with other problems, death becomes almost inevitable. When intussusception or any other severe medical problem is suspected, the person must be taken to a hospital immediately.[citation needed]

The outlook for intussusception is excellent when treated quickly, but when untreated it can lead to death within 2–5 days. Fast treatment is a necessity, because the longer the intestine segment is prolapsed the longer it goes without bloodflow, and the less effective a non-surgical reduction will be. Prolonged intussusception also increases the likelihood of bowel ischemia and necrosis, requiring surgical resection.[citation needed]




Febrile seizure


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Febrile_seizure



A febrile seizure, also known as a fever fit or febrile convulsion, is a convulsion associated with a significant rise in body temperature. They most commonly occur in children between the ages of 6 months to 6 years (with only 10% of reported seizures occurring after the age of 3) and are twice as common in boys as in girls.[1][2][3]


Signs and symptoms


During generalized febrile seizures, the body will become stiff and the arms and legs will begin twitching. The patient loses consciousness, although their eyes remain open. Breathing can be irregular. They may become incontinent (wet or soil themselves); they may also vomit or have increased secretions (foam at the mouth). The seizure normally lasts for less than five minutes.


Types


There are two types of febrile seizures.


A simple febrile seizure is characterized by shorter duration (lasting less than 15 minutes), no focal features (meaning the shaking is general rather than restricted to a part of the body such as an arm or leg), and if they do occur in series, the total duration is less than 30 minutes (classically a generalized tonic-clonic seizure).


A generalized febrile seizure also known as a complex febrile seizure is one in which the seizure lasts longer than 15 minutes or multiple episodes occur within 24 hours and generally does have focal features.


The simple seizure represents the majority of cases and is considered to be less of a cause for concern than the complex.[citation needed]

Simple febrile seizures do not cause permanent brain injury; do not tend to recur frequently (children tend to outgrow them); and do not make the development of adult epilepsy significantly more likely (about 3–5%), compared with the general public (1%).[7] Children with [8] febrile convulsions are more likely to suffer from a febrile epileptic attack in the future if they have a complex febrile seizure, a family history of a febrile convulsions in first-degree relatives (a parent or sibling), or a preconvulsion history of abnormal neurological signs or developmental delay. There is an 80% chance that children who have complex febrile seizures will have seizures later on in life.[citation needed] Similarly, the prognosis after a simple febrile seizure is excellent, whereas an increased risk of death has been shown for complex febrile seizures, partly related to underlying conditions.[9]




Now that we understand two out of several other dangerous possibility that can cripple or kill your child for life not from paid bloggers explaning that condition,  I must ask all mothers that would you had willingly injected your child if your if it was ever explained to you that these vaccines could potentially cause such symptoms and conclusions to your babies?   I don't think so.   


Perhaps if I had enough time, I might just back read hundreds of her post that indicates those side effects that she said she mentioned that are complex medical terms for a layman to understand and post its meaning.  but I believe this is enough and makes no sense inundating this topic that would make me sound like attacking her than bringing perpective to vaccine dangers.

femaleadmin

  • Guest
Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #416 on: November 20, 2013, 06:04:37 pm »
Just to remind everyone: this is a forum and respect for each member's opinions or views is important. In the event that the moderators and admins find the need to lock the thread due to flamebaiting or personal attacks on members, we shall do so. Thank you!

mrsamurao

  • Guest
Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #417 on: November 20, 2013, 07:08:27 pm »
Perhaps if I had enough time, I might just back read hundreds of her post that indicates those side effects that she said she mentioned that are complex medical terms for a layman to understand and post its meaning.  but I believe this is enough and makes no sense inundating this topic that would make me sound like attacking her than bringing perpective to vaccine dangers.

Sis Allura, thank you for explaining what intussusception and febrile seizures are but to be fair.. I think if someone asked Doc Lelet to explain the medical terms she have used in layman's term, she would have.

Now that we understand two out of several other dangerous possibility that can cripple or kill your child for life not from paid bloggers explaning that condition,  I must ask all mothers that would you had willingly injected your child if your if it was ever explained to you that these vaccines could potentially cause such symptoms and conclusions to your babies?   I don't think so.   


I think you made it pretty clear where you stand regarding these vaccines we give to our children. Like you, I, too, had issues with them before. Sino ba naman hindi matatakot when you read these stories about toddlers suddenly becoming "different" right after getting their MMR shots? Sino hindi magwo-worry na baka we're overloading our babies' immune system with all the vaccines? Yes, there are risks involved pero diba may risks din if you choose not to vaccinate? In the end, it's all about choices. It is every parent's right to make that choice for their child. Personally though, I chose to have my son vaccinated for the simple reason that my fear of him getting sick from whooping cough, measles or what-have-you far outweighs the fear I have for his vaccines.

allura

  • Guest
Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #418 on: November 20, 2013, 07:53:25 pm »
mrsamurao,


Thank you too for understanding.   


Those medical jargons can sometimes become a hindrance to understanding clearly what this is all about especially for people who would not take time to even research it.  It just like reading a good novel, we would always encounter words unfamiliar to us and a lot of people would be feel its a hassle to pause for a dictionary and learn what it meant.


Even if we are to remove the possibility that autism is caused by vaccine but acknowledge the rest like food allegies, learning disability including those two medical conditions above etc   its not like these conditions are any less traumatic for mothers to face.   Once our child gets hit bottomline is we are on our own facing this lifetime problem with all accompanying medical expenses that will surely drain our resources.


fear and guilt are two powerful methods that would make someone lose proper perspective on the issue and I was made to understand that in my search for vaccine dangers over the net.


Thank you again for your response.

lgf08

  • Guest
Re: All About Our Baby's VACCINATION - Part 9
« Reply #419 on: November 21, 2013, 07:41:04 am »
doc leletmd - i hope you will change your mind po about leaving GT.. your posts have been very helpful to a first time mother like me (and i'm sure to many others).. so sad that the day i decided to join the forum and start posting - i learn that you have decided to stop posting.. your posts are the main reason i regularly check GT forums.. sometimes, we have health concerns that either we forgot to ask our pedia or nahihiyang tanungin sa pedia and you devote time and effort answering them which in turn saves us the worry, time and money.. thanks very much for your posts..

 

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