President Digong Administration 2016-2022

[chocoholic88]

^Korek. It's either war or bilateral talks. according to Sass, we can't initiate war unless merong armed attack against the Philippines (selfe defense) or mandated by UN Security council.

Naawa din ako kay Yasay, andami nyang haters. Lalo na dun sa di nakakaintindi ng real situation.

[Kailarueluka]

is this the start of WWIII? lets get real, PH is no match in CH. kulang na kulang ang defense natin.
there will be a change of command in US, wag sanang tuta ng CH si clinton or trump. kase if that is the case PH will loose her biggest alli.

Yes we won UN arbitration case so what now? nganga pa din naman e. tuloy p din ang land reclamation at military activities ng CH.

PS.
no one can comment beyond my 9 dash line

 

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[Giri]

@Giri, sorry maling term nagamit ko. Sovereign rights pala. Gusto kong mabasa yung decision kaso 500 pages daw. Goodluck naman

ang pagkakaintindi ko sa sovereign rights sa EEZ ay yung coastal state lang ang pwedeng mag explore at exploit ng resources sa area na yun pero wala silang full control kaya pwedeng labas pasok ibang bansa. Pwedeng lumabas pasok China dun pero di sila pwede mangisda o mag explore ng oil.
Pero may nabanggit si Sass regarding sa international law, na hindi mo pwedeng pagbawalan ang ibang bansa na mangisda kahit sa territorial sea mo kung dati na talaga silang nangingisda dun.

Kaya parang nalito naman ako. So hindi pala blanket rule yung exclusivity ng sovereign rights over EEZ ? Depende parin kung anong lugar ang pinagtatalunan.

@dismembered, true at kadalasan misleading yung articles na ginagamit na source.

@twinxz, kung di gumana yung link, search mo na lang Sass Rogando Sasot

Pagkakaintin di ko, pag territory ng bansa hindi talaga pwede kahit anung activities from other countries(unless may permission). From her

Ang territory ng isang bansa ay nagtatapos sa kanyang territorial waters, 12 nautical miles mula sa kanyang baseline. Pati ang airspace, bed at subsoil ng territorial waters ay kasama rin sa territory ng isang bansa.

Iyung kung allowed mangingisda ang ibang bansa sa ating EEZ, pwede lang ito kapag may surplus. Iyug traditional fishing area sa eez, nasa bansa na iyon na may hawak ng eez kung allow nila ang other countries na mangisda dito.

But based on this decision by the tribunal, illegal iyung ginawang pangngisda ng chinese fishermen sa eez natin. Hindi ko lang sure kung saang area ng eez natin ito.

“Having found that certain areas are within the exclusive economic zone of the Philippines, the Tribunal found that China had violated the Philippines’ sovereign rights in its exclusive economic zone by (a) interfering with Philippine fishing and petroleum exploration, (b) constructing artificial islands and (c) failing to prevent Chinese fishermen from fishing in the zone.

[Vans]

^Yun sa mga areas within Phil EEZ tas hindi rin traditional fishing ground ng China - illegal talaga yung pangingisda nila.  Kaso, sino magbabawal sa kanila kung ayaw i-recognize ng China yung sinabi ng Hague.

^Korek. It's either war or bilateral talks. according to Sass, we can't initiate war unless merong armed attack against the Philippines (selfe defense) or mandated by UN Security council.

Naawa din ako kay Yasay, andami nyang haters. Lalo na dun sa di nakakaintindi ng real situation.

UN Security Council na kung saan permanent member ang China - pwede niyang veto

[Giri]

^
Yeah. Ang trabaho lang kasi ng tribunal is to make a verdict. It is up to Philippine to implement it.

I think sablay din iyung ibang reasoning ni Sass Rogando.

. MAPAPAALIS BA NATIN ANG CHINA SA ATING EEZ?

Hindi. Walang sinabi ang Arbitral Tribunal na dapat paalisin ang China. Ang sinabi lang ng Tribunal ay hindi nila pwedeng gambalain ang ating mga mangingisda at ang oil exploration sa Reed Bank na ginagawa ng kumpanya ni Manny Pangilinan.

8. ANONG MANGYAYARI SA MGA ARTIFICIAL ISLANDS NG CHINA NA NASA ATING EEZ?

Although sinabi ng Tribunal na violation ito sa UNCLOS, walang sinabi ang Tribunal kung anong dapat gawin.

Hindi rin sinabi ng Tribunal na dapat lisanin iyon ng China at ibigay sa Pilipinas. Wala kasing nakalagay sa UNCLOS kung anong dapat gawin sa mga naitayo na.

9. PAPAANO PO NATIN SILA MAPAPALIS SA MGA ARTIFICIAL ISLANDS NA IYON?

Negotiate with them or launch a war with them. Pero one thing is for sure, kung ikaw ang nasa posisyon ng China lilisanin mo ba ang mga islang iyon at ibibigay sa Pilipinas?

10. SO GANOON NA LANG IYON?

May legitimate interest po ang China kung bakit nila itinayo ang mga islang iyon: security.

Although the establishment of those artificial islands is illegal, China has a legitimate reason why they need to have a strong foothold in the South China Sea. Legality and legitimacy are not the same in international relations.

Ang halos lahat ng trade na dumadaan sa South China Sea ay galing o papunta sa China. If that trade gets obstructed, China’s economy will get destroyed.

And you don’t want a big country as China failing because it will cause a shockwave in the entire world, and it will be much worse than the Global Financial Crisis.

If the Philippines can ensure China that it can guarantee security to that flow of trade to and from China, then by all means paalisin ninyo sila. If the Philippines has the capacity to secure that trade for China, paalisin ninyo ang China.

Kahit ang Pilipinas ang nasa lugar ng China, the Philippines will do the same. So recognise the legitimate interest of China and see how the Philippines and China can work together.

11. Naku masama talaga intention ng China!

You can never know their intention if you are not going to talk to them. If you don't talk to them and assume na masama ang intention nila, all your action will be based on an illlusion.

Obviously, you can never fully know the intentions of another country even by talking to them. The solution to this problem is talking to them regularly. Not talking to them and not having a good relationship with them don't put you in a better position.


Sinabi na ng Tribunal na illegal iyung ginawang structures/island ng China sa EEZ ng. So it is understandable na dapat alisin mga ginawa nila dun(kasama na lahat ng structures/artificial islands nila sa WPS.  It's up to the Philippine government to implement the verdict/law. Tapos ang reasoning niya for China, kaya daw nagtayo ng structures is for their security, dapat secure muna ng Pilipinas na maging safe ang China bago tangalin iyon. Ikaw na nga ang ginawan ng illegal structures,ikaw pa mag satisfy sa kanila. Parang sinabi mo na din sa kapitbahay mo na magtayo ka ng structure sa bakauran nila for security purpose at tatangalin mo lang iyon kung ma provide mo sila ng security. Sablay talaga reasoning niya. Hehe.

[dismembered]

Ang ganda ng points at information regarding sovereignty and sovereign rights sa lugar ng spratlys. Pero medyo hindi rin ako agree sa ilang points nya.

kung ang sovereign rights ay granted sa atin.. pero bakit ang china lagi nilang ni claim na sila ay may undisputable sovereignty sa area? Hindi ba unfair na inangkin na rin nila lahat. Kung hindi man totally atin by way of sovereignty, pero sila inangkin na nila to the point na itinataboy ang fishermen natin? Maiintindihan ko sana ang sinasabing legitimate claim ng china para i-protect ang interest nila, pero yung pag claim nila ng undisputable sovereignty ang ikinaiinis ko sa kanila. Parang sinabi nilang kanila iyon at utang na loob nyo lang kung pagbibigyan namin kayo.

[chocoholic88]

Dito naman ako nalito:

Carpio: That particular case is pending with us and I will not respond. But I will tell you in general because the foreign secretary now has said we will enter into joint development with China. That was before the ruling but the ruling now says the West Philippine Sea, 381,000 square kilometres of marine space constitute the EEZ of the Philippines, and there is no overlapping EEZ from China. The Constitution says the EEZ is part of the national territory of the Philippines. Second, the Constitution says that the state shall protect its marine wealth in the EEZ and reserve its use and enjoyment exclusively to Filipino citizens. So whether it's President Duterte or any other president, that cannot be compromised. You cannot enter into joint development within our EEZ. That's prohibited by the Constitution.

[springblossom]

^yes, ganun nga yung nakasaad sa constitution because it follows the UNCLOS.

but then, what? in my alternate world, i wanted to go and fight china, because it's our land. but reality is harsh. reality is, we can't fight china without sacrificing everything. china even owned 40% of our national grid corporation of the Philippines, our country's power transmission operator.

now, i really don't know what is the best option for us.

on sass' posts, i think international relation is much more complicated. just observe those foreigh criminals in our country. sila na nga nang rape or nagbenta ng drugs, we are still bound to safely bring them back to their home countries. the irony of it all.

[springblossom]

tanong ko lang sa mga human rights advocates, is it possible to have peace and order among drug lords, pushers, and addicts?

and i think their focus shouldn't be on the dead. mas maraming buhay ang sumuko. mas maaappreciate ko sila kung focus nila is anong gagawin ng gobyerno sa mga libo libong sumuko. after all, these people need government support to rebuild their lives and we should ensure government will provide them that support.

[Giri]

tanong ko lang sa mga human rights advocates, is it possible to have peace and order among drug lords, pushers, and addicts?

and i think their focus shouldn't be on the dead. mas maraming buhay ang sumuko. mas maaappreciate ko sila kung focus nila is anong gagawin ng gobyerno sa mga libo libong sumuko. after all, these people need government support to rebuild their lives and we should ensure government will provide them that support.

Sagot daw ng government ang rehabilitation nila.

[springblossom]

^kaya nga sis. dapat yan ang focus ng mga human rights advocates. kung paano susuportahan ng government yung rehab ng mga yan. iensure nila na talagang masuportahan nga.

i just read now. president duterte will start bilateral talks with china and at a better position, since the tribunal has favored philippines in their ruling. i hope his first state visit is to china.

[dismembered]

^ I think kailangan din ng tulong natin na ipaalam sa mga tao ang reasons behind it. Madami kasi misinformed din at sobrang nationalistic kuno. As if naman may magagawa din sila. I hope hindi ito yung sakyan ng mga kalaban sa pulitika para lang magkaroon ng public unrest. Alam natin na anytime naghihintay lang yung mga yan.

[twinxz]

Naawa din ako kay Yasay, andami nyang haters. Lalo na dun sa di nakakaintindi ng real situation.

Likewise sis. Kala nila tapos na ang laban. But no, it is just the beginning.

[Vans]

@giri, yung security na sinasabi nya  ay secure yung trade interest ng China. Kahit sabihin natin kunwari may tiwala China sa Pinas para ipaubaya to, hindi practical na umasa China sa Pinas.
Pero opinion lang nya yan. Sya na rin mismo nagsabi, wala may ibang alam kung ano talaga interest ng China sa South China Sea kungdi sila lang.

@dismembered, yes nakakainis yung ginagawa ng China. Pero sabi ng recent ruling - walang legal basis ang 9 dash line. In my opinion, ito talaga ang victory natin.

@chocoholic88, nalito rin ako dun sa sinabi ni Carpio. Kasi nakasaad sa UNCLOS part v article 56, sovereign rights lang ang EEZ. At hindi ko mahanap sa Phil Constitution yung part na national territory ang EEZ pero may presidential decree nilabas nung panahon ni Marcos.

Hindi ko alam kung typo lang o ganun talaga yung nakasulat sa P.D. 1599 section 2.a  - “sovereignty rights" ang EEZ.
http://www.chanrobles.com/presidentialdecrees/presidentialdecreeno1599.html#.V4dfrRmp7qD

Kung sovereignty talaga ang ginamit dun at based itong PD sa international law, may mali sa PD.

Edited: article 56 not 55

[chocoholic88]

^nagtataka din ako dun kay Carpio:

Carpio: I think even without the ruling, the EEZ of the Philippines has been defined under UNCLOS and our laws. The exclusive economic zone is called exclusive because it is exclusive to the coastal state, to the Philippines. That's why you cannot have joint development with another country because international law and national law have said it's exclusive. Why do you want to share what is exclusively yours?
What you should do is ask other countries if they have the technology to help you develop it but they are your contractors. You pay them: you can pay them in cash or in kind but you don't give up your sovereign rights over this. It's sacred. And you cannot do that, you cannot give up those sovereign rights because the Constitution prohibits that. No president can give it up.

Full note here https://www.facebook.com/notes/ayee-macaraig/carpio-joint-development-in-eez-illegal/10154290257307230?__mref=message_bubble


He keeps on saying na sovereign rights, tapos sinasabi nya na territory natin? May comment din dun sa published note si Orion Perez na confused daw si Carpio.

[keejac21]

RJ Jacinto as IT and Economic advisor???
Im really skeptical about him.

[Vans]

^^ ito nakalagay sa phil cons article xii sec 2
" The State shall protect the nation’s marine wealth in its archipelagic waters, territorial sea, and exclusive economic zone, and reserve its use and enjoyment exclusively to Filipino citizens."
But Article I doesn't say anything about EEZ as a part of national territory.

So it contradicts UNCLOS part 5 article 56?


^ nagulat rin ako na si RJ, pero sa tingin ko konektado to sa plano ni Duterte buhayin ang steel industry.

[janachen]

Yung ibang tinalaga nya, medyo sablay. Balak pang idagdag ata si Freddie Aguilar.

So far satisfied ako sa drug campaign na ginagawa ni Bato, pati curfew, ok naman dito sa amin.

Before nagkalat ang mga bata sa subdivision, batuhan at minsan hawak hawak ang mga patalim mga 8-15 years old lang ang mga yun. Ngayun nagroronda ang patrol, nawala na sila.

^ nagulat rin ako na si RJ, pero sa tingin ko konektado to sa plano ni Duterte buhayin ang steel industry.

Haha eto natengga yung share ko sa steel. kaya stay lang muna sya sa port ko

[springblossom]

skeptical din ako kay jacinto. parang di ko sya ma-connect sa economic and IT, though sa communication aspect lang naman. Maalala ko din sa kanya yung steel plant nya that went bankrupt and when he ran for a post in our area, nagiging rocker sya during his campaigns hahaha!

si freddie naman, omg! sana pakantahin nalang nya during government events. hehe joke.

[springblossom]

Likewise sis. Kala nila tapos na ang laban. But no, it is just the beginning.

me too. i don't get the fuss over how he delivered the news. what did they expect? a victory dance? or "mabuhay ang pilipinas" chant?

napahiya na nga ang China, hihiyain pa ba natin lalo?