Overspending ng Mana

[erza0916]

Share ko lang and hingi narin ng advice.

Anim kaming magkakapatid. Maagang nawala ang dad namin. His mom, our lola, owns properties na pinagkukunan namin ng income simula or bago pa kami pinanganak. Hindi namang ganung karami pero more than enough kung tutuusin. Now na nawala narin ang lola namin, naiwan na saming mga apo yung properties. Hindi dumaan sa mom namin since hindi naman dumaan sa dad namin. Anyway ayun nga, ang naghahandle yung 2nd eldest namin which is my ate. Eldest is busy with his own business and studies. Eldest namin is 27 pa lang so parang mga "bata" pa kami to handle that kind of money pero ano magagawa, walang aasikaso. I, the third child, and my younger sister, 4th, live here in the US, tapos yung dalawang youngest eh nagaaral pa. So ang ate ko lang talaga ang naiwan dun. Hindi sya nagwwork, wala syang income whatsoever so lahat ng gastos nya galing sa supposed common funds namin. Hindi pa kasi official na hinahati hati. Pag nagigipit ako minsan I ask from the mana, magkano lang naman like 50k once a year.

Lately napapansin ko panay outing at roadtrip ng ate ko. Nakikita ko sa FB lahat ng pinupuntahan nya and spontaneous pa lahat dahil nagaway, take note away lang and hindi naman break, sila ng BF nya. She shops a lot, eats out sa mga mamahaling resto and buys the latest gadgets. Feeling ko nauubos nya na yung income and wala nang pumapasok sa savings. She recently got herself a credit card which is a big NO sa family namin. My lola was sobrang against sa utang kaya kahit cars ng family namin lahat cash ang bayad. She built her business ng walang utang. Even my dad never took out any utang or credit cards. I'm afraid na mabaon sya sa utang and lahat kami ang magsuffer.

Now since wala kami sa Pinas and we have our own lives to attend to, hindi na namin naaasikaso yung property. Sya ang inasahan naming aayos ng lahat pero mukang sya pa ang uubos. In one week na pagttravel travel nya baka nakalahati na nya yung one month's worth ng income. At more than 2 weeks na sya palibot libot sa Pinas. Pano pa yung dalawa naming kapatid na nagaaral?

She's not responsible and just spends the money without limit cause she knows na steady naman ang pasok and next month may pera nanaman. How do I tell her? I told her once pero nagaway kami. Sinumbat nya yung gastos ng family namin para lang makapunta kaming dalawa ng sister ko dito sa US. Pamasahe lang naman actually saka mga documents. Hindi naman kami naghirap dahil dun pero yun ang pinaglalaban nya. Recently ginamit naman nyang excuse, nalulungkot daw sya dahil sa away nila kaya sya naglilibang. I can't talk back to her kasi for some reason. Hay.. alam ko pera lang yun pero parang future na namin yun eh. Gusto ko sya sagutin at sabihang mahiya naman dahil parang inangkin na nya lahat at sobrang gastos nya pero ayaw ko naman magkaron kami ng something dahil sa pera.

Sorry kung medyo mahaba..how do I tell her? What can I do? Thanks

[Girltalker2]

I think you need a trustee on the 'funds' para reported lahat ng ins and outs ng fund. You need to talk to your eldest and 4th sibling. Then if possible to discuss face to face. If your 2nd ate wants to manage everything, Kelangan may report din sya every month sa balance ng funds and where the money goes and what is left.

No one is too young for this. Di ka naman nagmanage ng pera, but being an heir, everyone had the right to know what is happening to the funds.

[erza0916]

Yun nga kailangan talaga ng report kung san napupunta. Nung una we decided to just trust her pero sa pinapakita nya parang hindi na pwedeng ganun na lang. Masyado na syang nagfeeling donya sa perang hindi naman nya pinaghirapan. If we tell her na kailangan mag report sya mahuhurt kaya sya? Baka magalit at magkaron pa kami ng away sa family..wag naman sana.

[Girltalker2]

^ nope, the report works both ways.

If she is spending prudently tapos say sabi mo she is overspending, then the report can just prove you wrong. The status report  can help you all para hindi maubos and ma spend nyo ang money wisely.

How old are your 2 youngest siblings left with her?

[erza0916]

What do you mean by it works both ways? Sorry hindi ko gets medyo slow.hehe

Right now si ate lang ang gumagamit ng pera na yun. Since si 1st, ako(3rd) and 4th ay may sarili nang income. Except of course yung dalawang nagaaral pa. College na, 19 and 16, lahat ng gastos nila sa school galing din sa family business and wala kaming problem dun. Kahit umabot pa ng magkano yun basta towards sa education nila, hindi issue. I've been wanting to intervene narin sa ways nya pero I'm just too preoccupied at the moment. Hopefully pag uwi ko maayos ng hindi sya magtanim ng sama ng loob.

[freelancer_babe]

Kailangan talaga mahati-hati yan ASAP considering na ganun ang attitude ng tagapangalaga ng pera ninyo. Questionable nga naman yung mga road trips nya, considering na wala siyang work, unless yung boyfriend nya lahat ang gumagastos. But are you very really sure sis, na galing sa common fund ang mga travels nya?

Tama rin ba ang intindi ko na yung 2nd eldest ang naghahandle ng money and that she is 27 years old? Tapos yung pinaka-eldest talagang may tiwala siya kay 2nd eldest to handle all that money so he/she decided to focus on business and studies na lang?

Yep, like girltalker2 had said, a trustee for the funds could help. Kasi it raises questions that I have mentioned above. Like you could still be wrong along the way.

[erza0916]

^yes I'm positive na galing sa common funds yung ginagastos nya since wala naman syang ibang pagkkunan. And nagsimula yun nung nag away sila ng BF nya so hindi si bf ang nagffund nun.

Lumaki kami na sobrang tipid. Lola ko saka parents namin hindi maluho and simple lang ang buhay. We know na may business pero sabihin na nating kuripot ang matriarch. Nakatikim din naman kami ng luho from our lola pero laging pang lahat like trips abroad with the whole family. I remember crying over the nokia 3310 nung bago pa, ayaw ako bilhan kasi ako lang daw makikinabang, pano daw mga kapatid ko. Anyway, since nawala dad and lola ko nagiba na lifestyle ng ate ko.. she buys kahit anong maisip nya at whim. When one of her cameras got stolen bumili sya agad ng bago almost instantly, nasira lang yung LCD ng phone nya pinaayos nya agad sa Samsung na halos parang bumili na sya ng bagong phone. Tapos bibili din naman pala sya ng new phone. Everything from the common funds. She's also fond of spontaneous road trips with her friends na sagot nya (namin). The rest of us, we're content with what we have and can afford on our own.

My kuya (eldest) yung 27 yrs old. He just took the Bar exam kaya super busy sya sa studies nya noon kaya kay ate pinaubaya.

Sorry nagrrant na lang ako.. for some reason I can't say anything sa ate ko. Siguro ayoko magalit sya sakin and magkaron ng rift between us.

[mebpa]

sooner or later kailangan talaga pag-usapan. mahirap talaga pag-usapan if there's money involved, uncomfortable. confused ako, nasan ang mom mo? anong say nya?

[freelancer_babe]

Mukhang kailangan nyong mag-usap magkakapatid.

I think your kuya is the more responsible type considering that he has taken the bar exam. Have you mentioned this problem to him? He will have to deal with it even if he is busy with that tough exam and a whole lot of other things. Looks he will have to take back the rein of handling the finances from your gastador na ate. At nasabi mo nga pala busy siya noon? So ngayon hindi na? I guess he should be responsible for that. Siya pa rin ang kuya.

On the part of your ate, she must have been deprived of a lot of things that she wanted while growing up. Kasi nasabi mo na generally matipid ang family ninyo. Kaya ngayon na may pera siyang hawak, natetempt na siya to spend here and there, tapos walang makitang effort ang ate ninyo to replenish the fund back (like having a job). More so, mukhang nakikita rin kasi ng ate ninyo na kayong mga mas bata, you could do well on your own overseas.

Given that kind of lifestyle ng ate ninyo, I think hindi mo na rin maiiwasan na magkakaroon kayo na ng alitang magkapatid. It'll happen. Unless your ate changes her ways. Eh, right mo naman talaga to ask where the funds are going and how she is funding her lifestyle without a job or a rich boyfriend.

Huwag mo nang patagalin sis. Ikaw na rin nagsabi na mabilis siyang gumastos. Open this concern to your other kapatids. Baka di naman nila napapansin?

[twenty5]

I suggest na upuan nyo yan. I mean I know na nasa iba't ibang lugar mga siblings mo same din sayo pero mas maganda talaga na pag usapan nyo as in effort talaga to talk about it

[erza0916]

^hindi involved ang mom namin dahil ayaw ng lola namin. Galit dad's side sakanya dahil almost right after our dad died, she left us to go here sa US. Well she's how me and my sister got visas. My dad asked her on his death bed not to leave us but she still did. Teens pa lang kami nun, youngest was just 9.. nakita ng lola namin na iniwan kami kaya hindi talaga nya ininclude ang mom namin sa will nya. Now nagaadvise parin sya kay ate pero hindi naman din nya natututukan since nandto din sya sa US. May hinanakit kaming lahat sa kanya dahil sa pag iwan nya and parang lumabas na hinintay na lang nya mamatay ang dad namin so she can go.

[erza0916]

Thanks you guys... yes uuwi ako this June sana maayos namin ng hindi sumama ang loob nya.. kasi ang lalabas eh us against her. Wag sana nya isiping nag gang up kami sakanya.

Siguro nga dahil sa sobrang tipid ng family namin natempt sya ngayon na may freedom and funds na sya gumastos. Pero sana nagwork sya para sa luho nya.

Dapat ba mag ask kami ng advice from a professional like an accountant or whatever o just work it out amongst ourselves?

[mebpa]

Aside from your mom, wala ba kayo ibang elders to seek advice from? Pag-usapan nyo muna magkakapatid kung ano gusto nyo gawin and mangyari.

[quinone]

the simplest way i think na possible is just to divide the income amongst youselves. kung 5 kayo, each of you can open a savings account tapos ide-deposit lang doon ng kapatid mo yung share ninyo monthly. paswelduhin ninyo na lang yung sis ninyo na nagma-manage, on top of her share of course. yung kapatid mo na 16 baka kapag ganyang age in trust for pa yung savings? pwede rin naman kayong kumuha ng lawyer to do this if you don't trust her to make the deposits or what...

[aquacharly]

The equitable thing to do is to fairly compensate everyone.

the 2 are students -- pwes, non-negotiable their allowances and tuition fees & school-related requirements.
If your parents were alive --  kahit zero mabigay sa ibang anak like you --  talagang gagastosan ang 2 yang.

For example:  assume rentals ang working asset/source of  cash flow

            1 Million    Expected Cash In/month. ( simple arithmetic tayo 
0r.      12. Million.  For 1 year expected cash inflow from that working asset of Lola
       -   4  Million.  (Estimated tuition, school related expenses, allowance for 2 students)
      -    2  Million     For taxes, and repairs maintenance of ancestral home &
                             earning asset/property
so.   You have 6 Mio

Next, deduct a living allowance for the 2 dependents --  say 1mio per year for food, laundry, medical, etc
So you have 5 Mio

IF your Ate is the 1 managing it all -- the source of the cash inflows and the ancestral home and oversees your 2,student siblings --
It is but fair to give her 1O-20 percent of the 12million as Mgt Fee. Sya Lang puede mag abala eh.  Nobody else

Assume you give her 20percent of 12Mio - Eh di 2.4 Mio. So say nag nego kayo ok na 2mio for her

Sa 5mio less her 2mio -- eh DI may 3mio...
Divide that 3mio equally among all siblings.
All including this Ate & the 2 students

Pag matapos na the 2 students --
No more allowance pag may jobs na
Tapos wala na rin Living Allowance,
Puedeng ganito partihan

12 Mio
Less taxes, maintenance and repairs for the ancestral home and earning properties
Less 2mio for your Ate pa rin since asikaso pa rin nya lahat - na bawas Lang the 2 students
Eh di
12 less 2mio (taxes etc), less 2mio (Ate mgt fee) is 8mio
Yan divide mo equally sa all siblings
Ang living expenses ng 2 ex-students and your Ate Eh kunin na nila sa shares nila
Fair na yan
IF 1 of you wants to share in what your Ate does for all --  pwes, pag usapan nila how to split the work and the management  fee.   


As for past expenses
Pag namatay na yung dati decision maker as to how much was given que Kanino before --  stop adding and comparing magkano na bigay kung Kanino.  Decision yon nung may power to give before, even if unfair.

Kaya, I hope you will not mind my saying this but -- stop feeling lugi na ang na bigay Lang sayo noon to settle in the US eh fare Lang and whatever. It is not the amount per se but the opportunity available to you at the time you chose to go that is relevant. Double man bigay sa yo now --  will the "now" be as an opportune time for you as the "then" time?  It's a great blessing that when you wanted to go -- your family had the funds/means to support your decision to go at the time you chose. 

[erza0916]

^understood. Hindi ko naman iniisip din na unfair na yun lang ang nagastos para samin, yung fare and all sa pagpunta ng US. We don't mind really na hindi kami nakakakuha sa shares dun since ngayon naman ay hindi namin kailangan pa.. ang issue ko lang ay yung overspending nya na dapat sana napupunta sa savings and maintenance ng properties. Yung dalawang youngest no issue sa school expenses nila kahit magtagal pa sila kasi both are planning to get into med school. Walang problema. Pati living expenses nilang apat na nasa Pinas covered. Kaming dalawa ng sister ko dito, we work for our food, shelter, etc. Ok lang. That's how it's supposed to be. Our ate spends the money cause she knows we have it. Dapat talaga nagtitipid sya dahil hindi pa kami nkakarecover sa medical expenses nung nagkasakit ang lola namin.. millions din ang nagastos and hanggang ngayon hindi pa nakakabawi. Like I said hindi super laki ng income na yun, months bago maka 1m given na hindi kami gagastos sa luho, basic necessities lang.

I've already thought of a plan kung pano mangyayaring hatian.. 30% goes to the maintenance, improvement and school expenses, 21% yung monthly expenses, bills, food etc..pasweldo sa kanya kung kailangan talaga... 7% x 7 (6 siblings and mom) yung personal funds namin.. kaming may sariling income, massave yung 7% na yun.. sya na wala edi magagastos nya..kung gusto nya mag outing every week, dun nya kunin sa 7% nya. Right?

[Girltalker2]

Aside from your mom, wala ba kayo ibang elders to seek advice from? Pag-usapan nyo muna magkakapatid kung ano gusto nyo gawin and mangyari.

Ang mahirap dito assuming you can trust them. Kasi mamaya e mas maki hati pa sa mana.

TS, what I meant with working both ways is:
1) first is the ins and outs gets reported to everyone - so this serves everyone's purpose.
2) second, if you or anyone accuses ate of overspending, she can say that it is not true as she only spends within the limits - income lang, as what the report will show. An accounting of the expenses can somehow work on her side of it shows naman na she is just spending within the income - eh kung sa malaki ang kinita in the past few months since the stock market grew.

Tapos in discussing among yourselves - lahat kayong magkakapatid -

1) look at the past 2 years ins and outs of the fund.
Walang turuan or sisihan since tapos na yun.
But the important thing is at least you all know where the money goes at sa inyong anim naman iyan.

2) future - how to manage funds. Who will manage it? How?

if you want to use a 'common fund' at dun nalang dudukot anyone who needs the money. The problem here:
- prioritisation, baka mauna pa road trips ng ate mo kesa sa studies ng dalawang
- di naman din efficient kung kada decision lahat kayo magd decide. Kaso can you trust your ate to abide by whatever you have agreed on? There needs to be a trustee or someone to manage the common fund who everyone trusts and can generate an accounting san napunta ang pera.


Basta before you start the meeting, emphasize na Ang pinaka important is how you all move on nang walang samaan ng loob at agree on a common way, abide by it at magkakapatid parin.

[aquacharly]

ERZA tama ka -- the logic is to provide for the needs (schooling, taxes & maintenance & basic living expenses), plus compensation for your sister's management fee. .  Thereafter, equally split.   

That way, whether she is careful or careless with her personal expenditures -- she knows her limit is her rightful share, and not total collections.   

When one has a vested interest, it pays to be mindful always.  Do not be too trusting, even if the one put in charge is a sibling, or surviving parent.   If there's a manager, there's an accountant, then an auditor -- that simple business set up applies to family financial set-ups too.   1 of you should be actively checking her family collections and family expenditures.