Term Life Insurance

[ikaela]

^Since this is the term life insurance thread, many of our sisses here are BTID followers. So I think it wouldn't be out of place to recommend just buying term life insurance, then utilizing your place of employment's HMO, then investing the difference. If you are predisposed to critical illnesses, just add a CI rider to your policy. For your long-term healthcare or healthcare when you are old (and need it the most), invest in your own health fund. If you don't get to use it because you are as healthy as a horse, hooray, it's extra retirement fund.

But we all have our different needs, financial capacities, savings style, and perceptions of insurance. Marami tingin sa term eh sayang yung bayad kasi hindi nagamit and walang cash value. Others naman want to have life insurance until they die. Some need to be forced to save, and insurance companies do that for them. It's really up to you to choose if separate plans or the 3-1 plan is more suited to you. But if we're just looking at fund value, separate plans beat 3-1 plans by a mile, so much that you won't have the need for death benefits/hospital income/and etc. anymore when you're a senior citizen or even earlier.

I have my own excel sheets showing exactly how much more BTID beats whole life and VULs, but it's tailored according to my insurance quotes, the coverage I want, and where I will be investing the money (for example, I don't like adding accidental death riders because it's not as if my family's financial needs will increase if I die by accident). If anyone wants the table, I'll happily provide it. But here is a small sampling: in all-in-one policies, I would've paid 1.3M for a 4.6M fund value + 1M death benefit. In BTID, I would've paid 189k for a 17M fund value + a 5M health fund. At those values, no death benefit is needed anymore. Avoiding estate tax is the next problem after this, but that's for another thread.

[cheezecake]

@quennna caritas, maxicare, medicard,bluecross etc etc

[quennna]

thanks everyone..
appreciate your inputs..

[mxherr5]

@ikaela,

I did this a long time ago when I bought insurance
based on price.

Your figures doesn't seem to be spot on though.

Why would the VUL cost you 1.3M while the BTID
only cost you 189k? Shouldn't they both cost you
the same 1.3M?

Remember VUL is basically term insurance + investment
just like BTID. It would be unfair if you don't count
the investment part of the BTID as part of the cost.

I remember that I computed how much in charges I would
be paying for (Sunlife gives out the COI table so you
can compute how much will go to charges unlike other
insurance companies who only disclose the first year's
COI) and its not too far from an equivalent term insurance
premium.

When I did my comparison, I was looking at
Sunlife's Flexilink which had a 21.3k annual
premium and a 1M death benefit.

I would stand to get a 12M assuming a 10% return
at age 65.

For my term insurance, I had Philam's Guardian65
with a level premium of 5k(ata)

So, since Sunlife's premium is 21.3k that means
I have 16.3k per year to invest (21.3k less the
5k term premium)

And then I assumed the 16.3k per year invest
will grow at 10% and then compared which has a bigger
fund value.

I remember that Sunlife's Flexilink beat all term
insurance, other VULs though didn't do as well.

That was before Insular came out with their term insurance.
If you count Insular life's term insurance then BTID is
a clear winner if you use their term insurance.

The difference though isn't that "big"
I remember it was nearly a million but at age 65 assuming
a 4% inflation rate that's like 100k only.



+++++++++++++++++++++++

Also I have an accident rider with my term but I got
it for the disability benefits. Its more comprehensive
than the disability coverage attached to the critical illness
rider.

[ikaela]

^Yes, you're right, I should've added the investment component in BTID. I have one "fair" BTID table with the exact same coverage and rate of return on investment as the VUL, and the final figures also barely beat VUL.

But I also have this realistic table, one which shows what coverage I will more realistically buy, until when, and where I will more likely invest. I even used the historical performance of that insurance company's funds vs. the historical performance of my own investments (yes, not a guarantee of future performance, but at least a gauge of average returns). If insurance companies could only at least come close to those rate of returns, then maybe they can pique my interest (or maybe if I'm already becoming risk averse).

This is also how I perceive it: I need to give the insurance company 1.3M of money so they give me the coverage I want, and handle my money for me and give me more or less a projected fund value of 4.6M. In BTID, I just need to shell out 189k to get the coverage I want, and I can handle the rest of my money any way I want to (I cannot perceive money still in my hand and under my control as a cost).

And yes, the disability/dismemberment part of accident insurance is handy -- it can help pay for prosthetic limbs, disability equipment, outfitting your home/car to be handicap-friendly, and etc. But accidental death? It's like winning some kind of morbid lottery. And accidental death is actually cheaper vs. dying from an illness, so I don't see the need to double the face amount for that. Just increase your total coverage if you need more. Also, there are a number of places that practically give away accident insurance for free -- BPI's free life insurance and SM's Advantage card, and credit card companies for instance -- so why pay for it.

[mxherr5]

^
That's an interesting point of view..

Thankfully I have Quicken, and I do not have this err, problem(?)

Everytime, the monthly charges roll by.
I enter a sell transaction
then an expense tagged under the life insurance
category.

So, if I look at Quicken, I see my fund value.
Its returns are not skewed by the monthly charges.

And if I look at my monthly expenses. I see the charges
there as insurance expenses.

So, this is like you investing in say ALFM's Peso Bond Fund
then when its time to pay your monthly term insurance premium.
You sell the required shares and pay your premium.

I like to keep comparison's really apples to apples.

The only downside of VULs is that your trapped
with the funds available for investing.
The upside though is you can make your funds
estate tax free.

Another special downside for me is that compared
to UITFs, VUL management fees are higher.
This doesn't apply if you invest in mutual funds as
both of their fees are pretty much the same.

I agree.
You're not double dead just because you died of an accident.
Unfortunately, there's no way to get the disability benefits
with out getting like a base accident cover so...

[lusciousfoxy12]

Term Insurance for me is a good support to other regular paying insurance.  It really depends on your needs. In the long run term insurance can be expensive due to age factor and you are not really protecting yourself because what if you contract a sickness that will make you uninsurable but you still have dependents. You will not be eligible to insure yourself. In a regular paying insurance as long as you are healthy or with pre-existing disease but accepted by the insurer, you are protected for life or until the maturity of your policy. Insurance answers the what ifs of your life. It gives you peace of mind knowing whatever uncertainties comes along your way you and your family are protected.

[mxherr5]

^

Did you just imply that the insurer can deny your
renewal if you get sick?

Because you're mistaken.. they can't

If you get sick, they cannot refuse your term policy's
renewal. In fact, you can even convert your term policy
to a regular one without evidence of insurability up to
age xx(depends on the company).

[lusciousfoxy12]

^
you're right it depends on the insurance company because I talked to a lot of them and they have different say on it. unlike in a regular paying insurance after 2 year contestability period if you die of a non preexisting disease your family can claim.

[azaleah]

Hello po sa lahat,

OFW po ang asawa ko and plano na mag-avail ng term insurance. Nag-inquire kami sa Sunlife ng Insurance for Protection which is Term Insurance nga.

Ang sabi nila hindi daw sila nagbebenta ng Term Insurance sa mga OFW, VUL lang daw ang pwede according to them.

Gusto ko yung method na BTID na invest na lang yung difference.

Dahil napakalaki ng premium ng VUL, iniisip ko na  baka dumating yung point na mawalan ng work ang mister ko at hindi na mabayaran ang premium.
Sayang naman yung mga nabayad na, kaya we insist na Term Insurance na lang talaga ang kunin para sa mister ko na affordable at for protection purposes lang talaga.

Ang tanung ko po is anung insurance company po ba ang nagbebenta ng term insurance sa mga OFW.

Thanks in advance.

[cheezecake]

I hope someone will give more info about term life insurance

[mxherr5]

@lusciousfoxy, when I said it depends on the company,
I meant the age when you can convert your term
insurance to a permanent one.

Can you tell us at least one insurance company
who offers term insurance and can decline your
renewal if you get sick?

Because I've seen a lot of em and even the
unknown ones like First Life and I haven't seen
a term product with that kind of condition.

unlike in a regular paying insurance after 2 year contestability period if you die of a non preexisting disease your family can claim.

Err, I think you have been misinformed by your agent or something.

If you die on the 3rd year even if its due to a preexisting illness or not,
even if its due to suicide, you get paid.
That goes for both term and regular permanent insurance.

Technically, you still get paid even if its a preexisting illness since
I'm assuming you declared it when you applied for insurance.
And the insurance company decided to accept the risk but charge
you a higher premium.

Basically, if you die of something that you didn't declare then
the insurance company will just refund the premiums to your
beneficiaries. But if you declare, chances are the insurance
company will not accept your application. If they do accept
it though then your beneficiaries still get paid.

[ikaela]

azaleah, I know that Philamlife and Prulife sell term insurance to OFWs. As for VUL, those have a limited pay version, wherein you'll only pay for 10 or 20 years, then you can let the earnings from the investment portion pay for the premiums if you like.

This guy also sells international term insurance to Filipinos even if you are based elsewhere: http://www.jessuy.com/2014/06/term-insurance-is-it-for-everyone.html
For a 30-year-old female with a 10M face amount, the annual premium is 13k.

[mameejhy]

@azaleah - Actually, ok nga ang vul kasi, example kukunin mo yun limited pay (5yrs, 10yrs to pay) at nag accumulate na sya ng enough fund value eh hindi mo na kailangan magbayad pa ng premium.

[cheezecake]

sabi sa akin ng isang sunlife agent term insurance for 40years old 5M coverage is about 25k. Mura nman daw talaga ang term kaya lang kapag tumanda ka biglang nagiging mahal.

[quennna]

ako naman i decided to get vul na lang instead of term..

[azaleah]

Ikaela,

Thanks po! Nag-inquired ako sa Philam & Prulife at confirmed na nag-ooffer talaga sila ng Term Insurance sa OFW. Thanks a lot po.

May nakita rin ako na isa pang alternative para sa OFW is yung Save-Up Automatic Savings + Insurance ng BPI.

Ito po ang information:

"Get FREE life insurance coverage with your Save-Up account.  No medical check-ups or premium payments required.  The amount of your coverage is equal to as much as 10x your account balance* up to PhP 4 million!
·       Basic Life: 5x your account's average MTD-ADB up to PhP 2 million.
·       Accidental Death: additional 5x your account's average MTD-ADB up to
        PhP 2 million.
·       Accidental Dismemberment: in accordance with the Schedule of Dismemberment Benefits, up to PhP 2 million."

Source: https://www.bpidirect.com/page/view/save-up-automatic-savings-insurance

Any feedback po kung sino na dito ang naka-avail sa Save-Up Automatic Savings + Insurance ng BPI??? Maganda po yata ito dahil yung nasa pera na nasa account mo ay nandun pa rin kung wala man mangyari sa iyo unlike sa term insurance is hindi na babalik sa iyo ang mga binayad na premium.



mameejhy,

Yung 5 or 10yrs to pay sa VUL is ok din po pero para sa akin mas maraming advantage ang BTID method.

[MissChievous]

^ I have a Save up account. You just have to go to any BPI branch and apply for one. The Save up option is good din. Pero the problems would be:
(1) What if hindi mo mapigilan yung self mo na galawin yung money mo? Transferring the money is easy lang kasi. Sa BPI EOL. Medyo mabilis siyang magalaw.
(2) You need a big sum to get the value of the insurance that you need. Yung basic is 5x diba. So you would need 400k to get a 2M basic life insurance. Tapos 2M is the maximum na. Term would be 6k lang for a 2M insurance per year.
(3) The insurance offer of the Save up is not a permanent thing. What if i stop na ni BPI yung offer ng life insurance component sa save up account nila. Unlike if you put your money in vehicles of companies which specializes in life insurance.

Just a thought.

Term Insurance for me is a good support to other regular paying insurance.  It really depends on your needs. In the long run term insurance can be expensive due to age factor and you are not really protecting yourself because what if you contract a sickness that will make you uninsurable but you still have dependents. You will not be eligible to insure yourself. In a regular paying insurance as long as you are healthy or with pre-existing disease but accepted by the insurer, you are protected for life or until the maturity of your policy. Insurance answers the what ifs of your life. It gives you peace of mind knowing whatever uncertainties comes along your way you and your family are protected.

Yung PhilAm Term insurance has a Terminal Illness and an optional Critical Illness Benefit rider. You could purchase them. You can claim it for your family if you're already dying na. And the money you'll use for your health is your health care plan.

And you don't need insurance all your life. It's just income replacement. You wouldn't need insurance if you don't have dependents. You don't need it if your kids graduated college na. They can work for themselves by that time. Yun yung kagandahan sa Term Insurance kasi you control how much insurance you need at a certain span of time. With VULs, you may be paying insurance at a time when you don't need it na.

[MissChievous]

Sis mischievous, we attended the first seminar kanina..medyo confused pa ko kaya hindi ko muna pursue 'yung membership..when i asked them if i can avail the philam term insurance without purchasing the kaiser, sabi nila need daw muna mag avail ng kaiser before mag avail ng term insurance sa philam..eh actually, plan ko lang sana is to avail the term insurance kaya i want to be a member of img..looks like magkaiba ng explanation sa atin..

Hi sis! Sorry for the super late reply. Anyway, ngayon lang kmi ng meet ulit ng ka team and mentor namin. New policy na nga siya. Dati pwede pa mag purchase ng other investments without Kaiser. Pero now, they don't allow it. This is because they want to protect the integrity of the group.

Kasi daw nung inallow nila na i skip yung health insurance and go directly investment, sinisisi yung mga agents ng nag avail if may masamang nangyari and they aren't financially prepared. They need to get their money kaagad sa investment if they need it kahit lugi if may emergency. It turns out na they don't have an emergency fund yet. And they don't have Healthcare kaya ganun. Para lang ma implement yung tamang financial foundation.

This explains it sis.

[anetdin]

sino me philam gardian 65 dito? gusto ko kasi kuha nun pede parefer naman ng advsior nyo? thanks pa pm na lang po.. saka sino meron nung sa bpi-philam na life protect? pa refer din po ng advisor at saka yung sa insular na i-insure din sana compare ko lang sila.. thanks...