oDesk XVII

[saskia]

^^ thank you! I remember isa ka nga sa sumagot sakin dati when i asked kung pano yung ganun set up. Yes, business visa yung inapply ko. They just send yung ticket and hotel accom plus yung company docs. Super thankful nga ako dun sa mga clients ko na yun. Matagal na din ako wala new contracts because they eat almost all my time but like any other freelancing jobs, hindi din fixed ang income. So i maintain 2-3 clients lang. There are days na sagana but there are lean months din, bonus na lang that mas lamang yung hectic days and they compensate me well.

[Harper]

Wow, congratulations sis saskia!! 

[jazzygelable]

^sis freelancer_babe
i agree sis. my main gripe is that di man lang hiningi yung side ko basta suspension na lang agad. buti na lang i think the CS is filipino at very helpful siya. currently, im trying to earn passively as an amazon affiliate and mukhang okay naman.

[saskia]

^^ thank you. Good luck sa Odesk applications!

[lanshop2010]

@saskia, thanks for the info sis. Did th Australian embassy required you to show an ITR (income tax return)? Do you have one soley based on freelancing? I'm asking because the ITR seems to be one of the major concerns of many online freelancers.

[lanshop2010]

@freelancer_babe,

Thanks also for that info regarding the salary of programmers. I didn't know they now pay that much for programmers. 10 years ago, I remember they pay only that amount for highly skilled IT professionals like database administrators. And 10 years ago, the minimum amount as an IT professional you should accept when working in Singapore was P100,000.

My brother's acquaintance actually was a web developer in a company before, so he was quite experienced before he did freelancing. But he mentioned that after that he had to study new products and technologies to keep up with his clients' requirements. He told my brother that almost if not all of their peers went into odesk freenlancing but specialized in different fields, like one in forums development, one in php, one in mysql and one in web programming.

I worked for more than a decade for a big IT company and I can't say I had and an ideal work-life balance there. As my position and salary rose (quite slowly), so did the working hours. I frequently came home late and had to wake up early just to get a decent ride to the office. The only good rest I got was during weekends where I spent resting and was too tired to go out. It was exciting working there when I was in my early twenties but as I grew older, I figured I would die here working like this. I realized it was not worth it sacrificing that much. It was just a job. A friend had a mild stroke working there, he was in his early thirties then.

The young ones here in freelancing want to work in a real company and get a career. I understand their feelings and it is only natural. But for me, I don't know if I can still bear the daily grind of traveling early to the office and coming home late. The advantage I see of working online is that you can quickly earn as much as P50,000 to P100,000 if you are really determined and studious. I suspect that will only take you about 1 to 4 years if you keep improving every 6 months.. Compare that if you work in a company, it will take you a lot of years to get to P50,000 or P100,000 and that entails working in big companies. Heck, some big companies already pay their managers and VPs P100,000.

Are there a lot of local companies offering P100,000 to programmers? I remember the president of the company I previously worked for. He was heard belittling the company's programmers by saying programmers are a dime a dozen. They preferred hiring newly graduates and train them to become programmers to save on costs. The training comes also with a bond of several million pesos and you have to stay for 3 years with the company with no or little increase in salary. As you would expect, many resign after 3 years. It's quite ironic really, because the programmers where the company's bread and butter in their overseas operations but he looked down on them. Compared with that, I would take my chances with odesk.

As for the side benefits of working in the office, we can now get that by paying for our own SSS/Pag-ibig/Philhealth and health insurance. The corporate world seems more secure but in reality, nothing is. Only your skills you learned and honed will keep you marketable in the work place. We learned that the hard way when our company did the unthinkable and laid off most of their senior staffs to cut costs. Many cried that day and the most skilled quickly got a job and those that did mostly middle management jobs had the most difficulty because they were not salesmen, not fully technically skilled and not fully managers.

[lanshop2010]

Yup, yan sana ang gusto kong pasukin. Hardcore programming talaga. The rates of experienced ones really exceed $20/hr. If programming skills is quite rare/hot, it is even possible to earn P200k per month (Android programmers now earn roughly $5000/month in freelancing nowadays).

My brother and I are brainstorming which skills to study next, where demand is strong and competition is low in oDesk. The nice thing now is that we can get training materials off the internet. We just need the time to study. Hopefully by 2nd quarter this year, I will have enough free time to refresh my IT skills and see how I'll fare in the odesk market place after 10 yrs of no IT related jobs. I'm more in technical support in hardware and software Unix/Linux. But I dream of doing php programming, javascript and mysql. This is my experiment to see if I can gain the skills and break into the odeks market place. I figure it should take me 3 to 6 months of intense study before I can be confident enough to take a job related to those fields.

However, P100k+ a month is also a rate that is also given to 5+ years experienced programmers working in private firms in Manila (I've been checking Jobstreet, JobsDB, etc). Difference is, the ones working in the offices/telecommuting are (probably) paying taxes and enjoying other benefits, company-paid trainings, medical, health, SSS, etc., while the one working in the house - pwedeng makalusot sa taxation and even choose not to maintain any medical, health, SSS and other benefits while (maybe) enjoying work-life balance. (That makes $20/hr already a bit on the low side for freelancers who are into web development/programming).

Company paid trainings are nice because it is paid and you can travel to different countries like what I experienced in my previous employer. But there's a catch there. Before I left the company, a 5-day training in a foreign country already requires a bond of more than 1 million pesos and/or you must stay with the company for 3 to 5 years. In my experience, it was impossible for me to absorb all the information in just 5 days. For me, it will still take a lot of time studying with actual machine testing on and off the office to remember all those materials. I also get sleepy in trainings that's why I prefer studying on my own pace instead of attending trainings. In that way, I can sleep whenever I got tired of studying.

I tried, but it is difficult to break into this without a very good portfolio to show and a good working experience to boot. Mas nahirapan akong magprove ng portfolio because you have to know more than the basics. Unlike those in graphic design, one sample takes time to build - weeks or months - and that's just one sample. Unlike in the offices, you are not paid for the time to get trained for a new programming skill (unless you get very lucky with a client).

At the P100,000 salary range locally, will they require a lot of knowledge in different programming fields? I can only reckon they expect one to have mastered the programming language in order to qualify in that salary range. What if the programming skill is quite rare and not yet being taught in schools? Maybe freelancers have a better shot? Android programming is fairly new, I'm not sure if that is already being taught in schools. I read several programmers who programmed applications in Iphone/Android on their own and submitted those in the applestore and got accepted. Maybe that's enough portfolio to prove you can program well in those devices.

I remember before the year 2000 and at the height of the Y2K fear, the company I worked for hired retired cobol programmers and paid them handsomely for certain projects. The demand was so high back then for cobol programmers but so few young programmers have experience in it.

[saskia]

@ lanshop2010 no, they don't require it. I am also n the process of ironing out my issues with bir. I have a business kase prior to working on odesk.

[freelancer_babe]

@lanshop,

Yup, the tourist visa applications are the ones that often require ITR, bank statements etc - which many people are after. @saskia qualified for a business visa, kaya wala na syang kailangang i-prove masyado. Yung burden ng proof ay nasa client na nya. She didn't have to do what most people would have to do. 

Nagulat na rin ako sa rates ngayon ng mga programmers ngayon. I guess ganyan na ang rates to discourage IT people from thinking of going abroad or maybe even going freelance. However, the rate for an entry level programmer is still low pa rin - typically at less than P20k per month. Mid-level programmers with two or three years experience can bid at P40k and above depending on the programming skill they have.

I know about the bonds that come with training, but that's alright with me since I will also need the years of experience that comes after getting trained with the skill anyway after you are done with the company. Typical duration of bond is three years, some just offer two-year bond, swerte na kung walang bond (but it's the loss of the company kung nagresign ang natrain na empleyado - that's the main reason why bonds are in place). Sobrang tagal na ang five years and I don't know one company yet that has that length of bond.

Yung mga P100k+ above, mga specialist na sila on one particular programming language and they had been in that language for the past 5 years. It's also interesting to know P100k is pretty much the minimum pay acceptable to IT managers (plus other perks like signing bonuses, etc).

Yun lang, ang ayaw ko talaga sa IT - you have to really master another programming language - in as early as five years. The skills I learned 10 years ago (I know PERL/CGI, VB 6 and early VB.NET, Turbo C, Visual FoxPro) aren't useful now either in freelancing or even if you choose to go corporate. And it really takes time to master a new programming skill plus prove your work with a portfolio (kaya kung freelancer, you really have to stop working for a while to muster new skill, or just go back to office, accept lower-than-freelance-rate pay just to earn experience and still get to pay the bills).

I don't know how long PHP will last. Maybe another 5 years pa? Napansin ko rin pababa na ang rates ng PHP skills sa oDesk and there's some competition too. It's pretty much an easy programming language to master. (But then, I saw an Jobstreet opening where they offer P100k minimum to very experienced 5+ years PHP programmer).

* BTW, there are still job openings for COBOL programmers locally and abroad. 

[lanshop2010]

@saskia, salamat sa info sis. Ganun pala yun. Good luck sis. Balitaan mo kami ng developments.

@freelancer_babe,

Dami mo pala alam sa programming. Yan nga mga sikat noon na programming language, natatandaan ko. Yung C language programming, yan hindi mawawala. Hindi ko lang alam ngayon kung gaano kalaki ang demand. Ang advantage mo ay madali na para sa iyo magaral ng bagong programming language dahil iisa lang naman yung concept. Free time lang ang kailangan mo.

Sayang nga yung PHP, may chance dati na pag-aralan namin way back 2006 dahil may POS application na gawa sa PHP na gamit namin sa retail/direct selling business at gusto namin imodify. Hindi lang natuloy.

Yup, ang bilis ng progress sa IT, lagi may bago. Ang mga bago na nababasa ko lately ay HTML5, nosql, at android/iphone programming. Yan nga topic namin ng kapatid ko kanina. Naisip ko na dapat pala hindi fully loaded ang schedule mo sa oDesk para lagi may time mag-aral ng bagong techonology. Halimbawa 4 hours a day lang o kaya 4 days a week. Malalaman ko soon kung feasible yung idea ko.

[ikaela]

Nice discussion on going corporate vs. freelancing. I admit: sometimes, I look through the best employers in the Philippines thread and get envious of all the benefits they offer their employees. Health insurance for your entire family, rice allowance, maternity packages, car plans, bonuses, and sure increase in pay every year? Damn, what am I doing selling my services to people outsourcing their work and only looking to cut costs?

But anyway, for me, freelancing is the logical path to take if I want to achieve my life goals at a faster rate. I may not have the same benefits as regular employees, but what I do have is control over my own time, schedule, and life. Heck, I even have time to set-up and search different income streams, which I imagine would be difficult if I were spending most of my days at work and going back-and-forth from work. For me, there is no amount of money I will trade for being able to be with my baby any time of the day at the drop of a hat. Oh, and the fact that I can look over my household, run errands, and take care of business matters when they need attending to are major, major bonuses, too. Is there any corporate job that'll allow that? Even if there were, I don't think I want to be driving from work to home and back again each time something comes up.

As for working on oDesk, if you want to get the higher per hour rates, you need to be an expert at 1 or 2 things. In writing, just as it is in programming, you can command a higher rate if you are highly knowledgeable in a few topics. It's not a marketplace for a jack-of-all-trades. You need to stand out. Breaching the 6-figure monthly income is easy once you do that.

I agree about stability: it is an illusion. Me personally, I only feel stable work-wise if I have more than 3 sources from which I can pull income. Eventually, I would like all of that income to come from passive sources. I am working on that now. Lots of sacrifices to make and gratifications to delay, but I know it will all pay off.

[ikaela]

By the way, I came across this piece of news on a new bill that exempts SMEs from paying income tax: http://www.rappler.com/nation/51439-senate-passes-bill-helping-smes

I have not gone through it yet, but if you're a freelancer who's registered as a business in BIR, maybe this'll work in your favor.

[dda]

hello odesker,
Meron ba short course sa mga computer schools ng programming, yung client ko kasi gusto nya aralin ko yung mysql, sinend nya yung book sa akin sabi nya mahirap daw kung babasahin pero pag actual na daw di namam daw ganun kahirap.

Problem ko di ko maintindihan kung ako lang nagbabasa, kailangan ko ng may mageexplain. Kaya gusto ko sana magenroll kahit yung basic programming lang.

[wandergirl1980]

mga sis panu ba mag issue ng refund sa employer sa odesk? i mean panu ide-deduct ng odesk sa account ko yung money? also, is it better to end the contract bago ko i-refund si client or can i issue the refund first then end the contract after?

[izabelle]

Mga sis,

Im planning to try LFT sa Odesk..

anyone tried LFT to BPI account? gaano kabilis lalo na kapag 1st time? was there ever an experience here na hindi nag go through ang transfer?

paranoid lang lol

also meron pa bang gumagamit dito ng Paypal to bank account?

palpak ang paypal ko ngayon,  transferred wed morning, dapat friday night nasa BPI ko na pero wala pa din. Hopefully monday nasa account ko na funds.

[Hanna1]

^okay naman LFT-BPI sis.
Pag nag withdraw ka Wednesday Aft. papasok na yung money sa account mo by Friday.

[lanshop2010]

@ikaela,

Thank you for that link. I read it and it definitely is good news for micro and small businesses. Benigno Aquino IV sponsored the bill. It came to mind that maybe we should email or write him about online freelancing and its potential in giving employment to many Filipinos. Maybe he can also sponsor a bill about online freelancers so they can be tax free since there are similarities with OFWs. Online freelancing seems to be still in its infancy  here in the Philippines and the potential could be huge if supported by the government.

[chocolate]

@izabelle Kapag Friday ka nagwithdraw, Wednesday mo pa yan makukuha kasi ang counting nila ng days to deliver is banking days.

I have both BPI and Paypal sa oDesk ko. Wala naman problema. I've been working with oDesk since 2008.


Re: Corporate vs. Freelancing
Sadly, I want to try the corporate ladder naman for a change. When I started working kasi, freelancing na agad ang pinasok ko. (Thank you gt dahil dito ko nalaman ang odesk.) I find it easier to manage kasi hawak mo ang time mo at siyempre commensurate ang sweldo mo sa work na put in mo.

Pero napapaisip rin ako minsan kung ano ba meron ang corporate world na wala sa freelancing, maliban sa SSS, Pag-ibig, PhilHealth, at benefits. Kasi kung i-compute mo parang halos pareho lang rin ang kita (please correct me if I'm wrong) in terms of monetary value. Baka nga lugi pa ng konti kasi ikaw ang nagbabayad ng bills (meralco, pldt, water plus yung SSS, Pag-ibig, PhilHealth, Insurance). Although I understand and agree that having control over your time cannot be pegged at a specific amount of money. Torn pa rin ako sa kanilang 2.

I've applied sa isang company that offers a good amount of money rin. I want to try it out for myself para naman siguro malaman ko rin kung ano ang gusto ko gawin - if it's freelancing or corporate structure.

[packsmom]

I know medyo late na tong congratulatory message ko but sis @saskia, Congratulations! I'm happy for you sana mabigyan din tayo ng ganyang opportunity. Ang bait ng client mo

A part of me tells me that I shouldn't be hoping for it too, since the reason why they're outsourcing is to cut costs, but I'm still hoping and praying and working my a$s off haha kung hindi, ok lang din naman. Ako na lang dadalaw sa kanila hihi

^^^^interesting and clever points @Ianshop2010 @freelancer_babe @iakela @chocolate..

@Ianshop2010 re writing Bam or other politicians, go ahead, it's time for us freelancers to be officially acknowledged and supported by the government..

I filed for registration in PhilHealth late last year and just got my PhilHealth no. and member data record. It said that I'm under the Informal Economy at ang sub-category ko ay "Informal Sector". People under the Informal Sector are taho vendors, pedicab drivers, jeepney drivers etc.

I felt sort of insulted (hey no offense to our taho vendors etc brethren) but understood them since they don't know where to classify me. I've got a Bachelor's degree but my profession doesn't require a license to practice. My job is way far from my degree and it also doesnt require a license to practice. I don't "technically" have a business so that doesnt make me a businessman. What does this make me? I know it's just a matter of classifying people pero sana naman di naman ganun...

I'm leaving again and eto na naman ang kaba ko tuwing haharapin ko ang immigration official at tatanungin ako kung ano trabaho ko at ang tagal kong mawawala at minsan di nila naiintindihan nature ng work ko. I think the only thing that makes them stamp my passport is the child I'm carrying.

[Ma. Regina]

Hi! I am newbie in this thread.  I am interested sa odesk, is it too late to start working freelance? Mukhang madami na dito sa thread na to ang freelancer veteran sa odesk eh. Kindly advice. Thank you.