My friends are all becoming Born Again Christians

[agape]

para sa mga katolikong naconvert sa ibang relihiyon:
-catholics call these people as lost sheep. sila yung mga taong personally pinanghihinayangan ko dahil hindi nila nabigyan ng chance ang catholic church para ibigay ang klase ng enlightenment na hanap nila. for example: rica peralejo. nag stop naging boldstar nung nakarinig ng "the body is the temple of the holy spirit" sa isang BAC gathering, at nakapag-asawa ng pastor. bat ganun, e millenia-old teaching na yan sa katesismo ng katoliko. di ko alam kung anong naging difference.

i am not super against BACs or other Christian denominations for that matter. well, if their current belief is what is now making them to be better persons, then by all means, stay with it. kami naman ng mga kaibigan kong BAC, nagkakasundo kami pagdating sa music kasi lahat ng christian denominations kilala ang Hillsong (na hindi rin naman mga Katoliko), Steven Curtis Chapman, Passion Band, etc.

HOWEVER, personally, what i do not like is, christians (like ADD / INC) who impose or preach to catholics. na kesyo sila lang ang maliligtas. na kesyo mas tama ang mga turo sa kanila. yung mga literal ang pag-intindi sa bibliya. (apologies for the bara-bara words already being used). oo, hindi lahat ng katoliko, and aminado na ko doon, ay hindi pala-basa ng bibliya. but if I may say so, Catholic teachings (which include scripture AND sacred tradition [http://www.catholicbible101.com/sacredtradition.htm]) are already existent for the past two millenia. walang nabago. kaya wag ipilit ang mga interpretasyon ng iba. we may not have an immediate rebuttal to those people who insist their teachings but give us time to research, there is always an answer to those people who like to impose.

Same lang naman ang teachings ng Catholic, Christian, born-again, etc, more or less, kasi galling naman yun sa Bible. Pero sa tagal na kasi ng Catholic Church, parang nag-stagnate sila, kaya dumami na denominations, many people are looking for more than what the church offers, sabi nga nagkukulang na rin ng mga priests (enrollees/ordained). Church has become boring instead of inspiring/enlightening.
During Spanish times, iba rin ang Catholic, the mass was in Latin, anong spiritual growth mo noon?
Religion was used to control the Indio. So iba rin ang roots ng Philippines when it comes to Christianity.

Anyways, going back. I am happy that Catholics accepted Hillsong (but not all Christian bands) and so Catholics have learned a new way of worshipping/singing for God. They are many ways of praising/worshipping God, but Catholics are restricted to the pattern/tradition of the mass, and that's it. Now me add-ons na like worship concerts. I can see that Catholics are hungry for God and to worship God, and now na-experience na rin nila, outside the church building, and inside Araneta Coliseum or other venues. Of course, there are Catholics who still prefers to sing the ancient solemn hymns and that's okay. God is not limited in Music or Songs. Why should there be more songs in this world that songs about God. Mostly the Christian bands lang ang nag create ng most of the music we here today.

If we are bothered by other religions, like ADD/INC, or if you are on the other side din Catholics/BAC, consider your faith being tested. There's always something good to learn from it. As for me, I have learned a lot from debates/discussions. But always have Respect for Humanity, because after all, we are all made in the Image of God.

[Observer54]

This has  been a very healthy discussion so far.  Let me just high light some good points. We should not be so absolute na ang religion lang natin ang magaling at tayo lang maliligtas. We should not look down on other religions to elevate our selves. Hindi dahil may ilang masamang INC/BAC/Catholic eh masama na lahat or vise versa. Lastly walang perfect na religion dahil na rin sa members nito. I am a catholic but I dont agree sa mga nagpupunas ng panyo sa mga santo. But its just me at wala akong plan pagbawalan yung iba if thats what keep their faith going well good for them. Kwento ko lang din nung nasa middle east ako. I was with a group na fanatic BAC almost laman ng usapan nila is about them as christian at ang bible. One time may pinag usapan silang isang tao na INC. sabi nung isa hindi kasi christian katulad natin kaya ganyan. medyo nag panting ang tenga ko di ako nakatiis. panay lecture sa paligid about sa bible eh yung premise pala ng "christian" hindi nya alam. sabi ko inc/bac/catholic christian lahat yan. next time pag sinabi mo kung ano ka kumpletuhin mo BAC ka.

[iceheaven31]

@agape:
Thank you for reading my post.

First of all, may I just say that hindi po pareho ang teachings ng Catholic, Christian, BAC, etc. Kasi po ang Catholic teachings, like previously mentioned, ay based from scripture AND sacred tradition. Hindi po Sola Scriptura. And kung Bible man ang usapan, the Catholic bible itself is different as it has 73 books, unlike the other Christian versions na 66 lang.

People may say that there are a lot of wrong doctrines in the Catholic Church just because wala sa Bible ang mga bagay na ginagawa, and there are doctrines that were not agreed upon by some people that's why books from the Bible were removed. Again, hindi lang sa Bible galing ang mga turo ng Simbahan. May sacred tradition, dogmas, encyclicals, etc.

Although I would have to agree with you that the Catholic Church may have stagnated in propagating the faith therefore mas dumadami ang lumilipat sa ibang relihiyon as the years have passed. There really is a shortage of priests. And yes, during the First Vatican Council, the Mass was in Latin (and nakatalikod pa ang pari sa tao). And yes, as you mentioned, religion ang pinangkontrol ng mga Kastila sa mga Indio, lalo pa ang mga Kastilang pari sa Pilipinas noon ay mga basura ng Mexico.

That's why the Second Vatican Council was formed to do reforms, at dun na lumabas yung Mass in the vernacular, priest na nakaharap sa tao, etc. Also, it is worth noting that the current Pope is also changing a lot of things in the Catholic Church, which are visible in the news.

Perhaps it is a positive thing that Catholics are now really open to more kinds of music such as Christian bands. Not necessarily Hillsongs lang per se, siguro kasi siyempre hindi rin naman lahat aware kung sino-sino pa ang mga bands kasi hindi naman released publicly. Personally I have songs by Jars of Clay, Barlow Girl, and the bands I previously mentioned. But though it is a good thing that Catholics are already doing the other kinds of praise and worship, it does not mean that Catholics should explicitly prefer or stick to that. Even the CFC and LOJ (Bo Sanchez) themselves recognize that the Holy Mass is still, the highest form of prayer and no amount of praise and worship will reach to the level of the Holy Mass. That's why at most of their events, meron at meron pa ring Santa Misa. Also, their preachings are still in line with the teachings of the Catholic Church as they have priests mentors.



@Observer54:
Thank you for highlighting the good points. And true, we really cannot generalize a group by the actions of just one or a few of its members. Also, ako naman kahit Katoliko, hindi ko kaya ang makipag-patayan sa prusisyon ng Nazareno. Pero tulad nga ng sabi mo, kung sa mga deboto e yun ang nakakapagpataas ng pananampalataya nila, then so be it.

[engr_neechee]

I grew up in a very Catholic family.  I was raised in Catholic schools.  We grew up going to Sunday mass as a complete a family.  I pray every morning and that includes reading the daily scripture prescribed by the Catholic Church.

Yes, sumasama ang loob ko seeing my batchmates from our very conservative Catholic school na nacoconvert sa ibang sect.  Pero someone explained to me na mas nahanap nila si God through those sects. 

I've always believed that these are the Catholics who had weak foundation - na tipong hindi naturuan kaya hindi nila naappreciate ang Catholic faith nila.  As for me and my family, our faith worked for us, especially during the times na tinaningan ang buhay ng Mom ko due to cancer.  That was 1997...she's still alive, but not kicking to this day.  Our family's story will be so many songs of praise to God. 

I am happy and fulfilled being a Catholic and I know na I have no shortcomings as a Catholic.  I live by it, na tipong hindi ako nagbibisyo, hindi ako umuuwi ng gabi at mabait akong anak sa mga magulang ko.  I am proud and happy of my upbringing.  Hindi rin sa akin maisusumbat na ang Katoliko ay hindi nagbabasa ng Bibliya dahil ako mismo eh nagbabasa ng Bibliya.  I can differentiate the epistles from the gospels, the prophets from the pentateuch, etc.  In fact, I prepare for Holy Mass by advance reading.

Since this faith works for me, I know that I'll never convert to another religious sect.  Dito ako masaya, dito ko nahanap ang Diyos, dito ako kumakapit ke masaya or nasa panahon ako ng pagsubok. 

Good thing wala akong friends na katulad nung kay TS.  Because I don't befriend those people who would evangelize me na parang mga banal na aso, santong kabayo.  My bestfriend is Adventist and we blend well.  I even got his Dad as one of my Ninongs sa kasal and it wasn't a big deal na pumasok sila sa loob ng structure ng Simbahang Katoliko. 

But! I had an ex na walang ginawa kundi icondemn ang Simbahang Katoliko.  Sirang-sira ang buhay ng taong ito kaya whenever he tells me that his religion is the one that should be followed..no dogmas, just the Bible, I asked him, does it work for you.  There he went na isumbat sa akin ang mga naging pagkakamali ko sa buhay. 

We all have our beliefs and everyone has a system that is tailor-fit for our needs.  Respeto na lang.  If you can't stand the people who are experiencing some kind of euphoria na tipong irerecruit ka sa kulto nila, avoid them. 

Kay TS, try to appreciate Catholicism.  Baka kapag nagawa mo iyan eh maging mas mala-propeta ka pa kaysa diyan sa mga BAC mong friends na kesyo nakatuklas ng kakaibang kasiyahan sa kanilang new enlightenment. 

It still boils down to belief system, religion and one's relationship with God isn't a one-size-fits-all thing.

[Cheesecak3]

^ I agree.

I am a Catholic eversince at mas naappreciate ko to lalo na nong nag aral ako sa Catholic School. Mas naintindihan ko at mas lumalim ang paniniwala ko sa Catholic. Siguro yong mga lumipat ng ibang sect ay yon yong hilaw sa pagiging Catholic. Siguro hindi nila alam talaga kung ano ang Catholic.

[shadow_man]

Maraming tao ang ganyan. They were born into a religion and will die by that religion.
They did not choose their religion when they were a baby, they just decided to stick with it na lang.
The loyalty maybe is in the religion/tradition/beliefs/church/routine/family ties, or just plain fear,
but not necessarily on God himself.
There is nothing wrong with being loyal/faithful, it is actually good,
iba rin naman yung close-minded, but you won't grow spiritually unless you also open your mind,
but faith is only as powerful as the object to whom you put your faith in, God.
God will not ask us what religion did you join, to get into heaven. (John 3:3)
God will ask what we did with His Son, the Savior,
did we believe what Jesus said (John 11:25,  11:40, 14:6,  Matthew 7:21)
and what He did for us (why he had to die on the cross) or did we believe a false gospel (2 Corinthians 11:4)?
All of us are born into some kind of religion, but that religion should lead us to God. Sabi nga dun sa Life of Pi.

It is good that the Catholic Church is CHANGING. There's the Feast/Bo Sanchez, Couples for Christ, etc.
It is something that the Reformers/Protestants/Martin Luther has been trying to do before, make changes. Many things needed to change sa church, that's why other denominations came into existence because change never happens over night.
Marami ng Catholic na born-again na din ngayon, but choose to stay Catholic.
Madami na rin kasing options ngayon ang mga Catholics, unlike before where the option was to leave Catholicism and convert to some other Christian religion, to have their spiritual needs met.

I do not subscribe to part of your conclusion why people choose to stay, there may be few who fall to your summation but i guess the greater multitudes who prefer to stay is not because simply of loyalty to religion per se or out of fear, but because they do understand their faith and their religion, to some the traditional worship may be boring but still to many the silence and solemnity of the worship gives them the peace that unites them with God. One stays not because it is error free, but because one understands what he's into very well, and it is where he finds connection with God.

Martin Luther's reform was more of political, as to doctrine only minimal, he even maintained the mass as a form of worship and the vestments. Luther in fact never intended to leave at first.

But I do agree with you that religion is not the end, but it should be a rather a mere instrument that will lead us closer to God.

But I do believe one cannot be Catholic by not observing its tenets, more so by totally missing the true nature and importance of the Eucharistic Sacrifice, for being Catholic is not by name, it is by practice.

[caterpillar-girl]

Whoa I posted this 2 years ago and I'm happy this thread is still alive!

So. Yes I'm still Catholic and yes I'm still friends with the people I referred to in my first post. Also, they're still very enthusiastic about their faith, and still very much Jesus freaks. Don't be mad, I say they're Jesus freaks with the utmost love, respect, and affection.

A little story: Just last December, at the Feast of Immaculate Conception, I learned that the immaculate conception pertains to Mary's conception, in St. Anne's womb. ALL MY LIFE, I thought it referred to Jesus' conception in Mary's womb. Twenty years of Catholic education and I found out just now. What will the nuns and Jesuit priests say???

Anyway, I posted my "discovery" and "realization" in my Twitter account, because I was so flabbergasted. So one friend goes, "nasan ba yan sa Bible?" something to the effect. So I said, err wala, but it's one of the 4 Marian dogmas. (Yes I Googled it!). And then I was told, "wala naman pala sa Bible eh... "(meaning, "so what is your big problem!?")

The point of all this RAMBLING, is this: yes may times some people of different faiths will not look too favorably on beliefs of certain people. BUT, if our faiths are strong, as strong as theirs, there's no reason to feel offended. I feel strongly about my Catholic life, and followed the advice here to strengthen my own faith, and so far it's the best, and might I say, only way to make sure one does not get caught up in other people's opinions, and other people's behaviors stemming from their new found faiths. Also, I understand that other people don't revere Mary. That's fine. I'm sure my friend was just trying to make me feel better. Or at least yun nalang iniisip ko. Haha.

I agree with the poster above, I don't think Catholics stay Catholics only out of blind loyalty. Some stay because it's really what works for them. Some don't even MAKE choices, they don't choose anything, they stay because being Catholic is what they've been all their lives. I don't think that's so bad either. Maybe it just means they like being Catholic, it "works" for them, even if they themselves are not fully aware of it to question the order of things.

However, having said all that I've just said, I don't actually believe that faith is PURELY a personal thing. I don't believe it's "just between you and God." Maybe in the end, when you stand before him for the final judgment. But for now, I believe in the concept of community, and I believe our faiths can't be removed from the community aspect. That, however, is a post for another time.