My friends are all becoming Born Again Christians

[caterpillar-girl]

^Thanks Mr. Punch. It's good to be able to talk to fellow Catholics about this issue. I don't think it's possible to ditch them, nor would I want to.  Although I've been keeping my distance somewhat, just because there are times when I know what I need - and not need - and I know that they might not be the best people to approach. Anyway, I love them dearly, and I'm sure they feel the same about me (ha!) and so number 1 is not an option.

Number 2 is not and, I really believe this with all my heart, never will be, an option. Precisely for the things you mentioned. I remember having the exact same conversation with a friend LONG before she got into her new church, and we said those things exactly. I appreciate the Roman Catholic's history, and tradition,  nevermind that it might have been a brutal, bloody one. But I think it's the only Church whose intellectual foundations I can fully respect. So #2 is out as well.

As for Number 3, well, I THINK I take my faith rather seriously. I have a nice Catholic prayer group, whom I try to see at least once a month. They're fun folks, but they're not my steady circle and a lot of them are married na.  And I go to Church and go to confession. I actually go to confession more than I hear mass, harhar. It's my favorite sacrament. Plus I have a Jesuit friend I see every Sunday. I'm an imperfect Catholic though, despite all of THAT. I could totally relate to writer Mary Karr. Asked what kind of Catholic she is, Karr says this:

    "The really fun kind. The really cute kind. The really excellently dressed kind -- I don't know. ... Everybody comes over on Sunday. I make turkey meatballs, and we watch 'The Sopranos.' So that's the kind of Catholic I am. You know? I like everybody. I'm vain and pretentious and arrogant and terrified and full of longing for the numinous and for that joy. And yet I sometimes think I do everything I can to shove it away."

And that paragraph sums up perfectly the type of Catholic I am. So I guess I just have to continue this path, door number 3 no? And hope that at the end everything will make sense. Or make for an interesting story at least.

[alwynne24]

Christianity is a walk with Jesus whom you develop a relationship with, its not belonging to a religious sect called Born-again Christian Church.  Unless we realize the difference, or atleast try to understand what it really means to be a 'christian' it will always be a tug-of-war between your lifelong religious affiliation and theirs, a constant weighing as to which faith is better and who is holier. 

Sitting in a garage does not make you a car-- so whether you go to a Cathedral, a house church or a tent -- unless you make 'God' your God, your spirit will always be quenched with what is essential to our being, which we try to cover up with momentary happiness. And once we have come to a point that we discover how wonderful it is to know this good God that they are talking about-- we will never understand them, and may find their ways weird and annoying. 

And the uncomfortable feeling, well, its a spiritual thing 

[Mr.Punch]

Funny how people try to deny the importance of institutions but would make joining their sect and obeying only their teachings by their pastors as pre-requisites before one even considers being ready to be a good Christian.

No doubt.  The institutional Church is important.  If it's not, then what's stopping every deluded fanatic from waking up one day and believing that s/he knows the right interpretation of the Bible and tell people to follow him/her?  (Oh wait, that's actually happening now.  Damn you Luther!!!  )  While it may be fashionable to worship under the directin of a very charismatic leader who really enables you to lift your spirit and leaves you feeling good after each worship session, I find much more sense in the quiet contemplation of universal truths under the guidance of a Church whose - in the threadstarter's words - "intellectual foundations I can truly respect."

==========

On a remotely related point, there are fundamentalist sects now who promote themselves as "non-sectarian" in an effort to not sound too threatening to those who have lingering loyalties to their current churches.  Anybody who's educated enough would find this funny because their justification for calling themselves "non-sectarian" is that they accept anybody to their sect regardless of religious affiliation.

Aba'y kung ganoon pala, lahat ng relihiyon ay non-sectarian.    Don't be fooled, guys.

[alwynne24]

To know clearly why we go to our 'church' makes the difference.
Do we wake up Sunday morning excited to attend the mass (or worship service) because we want to bring our thanksgiving and highest worship to our good God, or we just want to have another feel good 'experience' where our spirit will be lifted up? 

I do not speak for everyone who goes to a Bible-believing church and listens to a Pastor preach, because not everyone walk their talk. Relationship with your God is a personal decision, and that is when you are truly ready to acknowledge that you cannot be on your own, and have that willingness to humbly step down from your throne and letting God take full control of your life. And having the desire to really get to know Him (not just about Him).

And if by now you are still reserving God only for Sunday, special occasions or only for times of desperate need-- like 'il call you when I need you or i'l see you when my schedule permits, maybe it's time that you re-evaluate who is this God that you are suppose to be worshiping, out of every good thing that He's done that you didn't even asked... doesn't He deserve more?

[Mr.Punch]

^ Threadstarter, the post above is gold and there's nothing there that I'd disagree with.

You'd do well not to aspire to be someone like Mary Karr as far as her Catholicism goes.  She might be a good writer, but she's the type whose faith is obviously not growing.

In fact, you'd be a failure in any religion if you stop growing.  Christianity, in particular is a faith that, when gone about properly, strives for perfection.  Never be contented.  In an ideal state, as alwynne24 says, there should not be a part of your life that is not surrendered to God.

Ask your Jesuit friend about Magis.

====================

(Here's the Wikipedia entry, but it's best explained face-to-face by a Jesuit.)

Magis (pronounced "màh-gis") is a Jesuit phrase that means "the more." It is taken from Ad majorem Dei gloriam, a Latin phrase meaning "for the greater glory of God." Magis refers to the philosophy of doing more, for Christ, and therefore for others. It is an expression of an aspiration and inspiration. It relates to forming the ideal society centered around Jesus Christ.

The roots of the phrase are ascribed to St. Ignatius' exercise of doing more for God. He would encourage people around him during his time by asking: "What have I done for God? What am I doing for God? and What MORE can I do for Him?"

[Frozen Toes]

I'm Catholic, but I'm not Roman Catholic. I'm Christian, Evangelical Christian, Born Again Christian. Though, Roman Catholics are Christians, too. Some people say I'm Protestant because I've been "born again". But honestly, the word "protestant" doesn't sit well with me. Parang ang negative, parang contrabida. I don't fully understand the difference between denominational and nondenominational. I don't know how different evangelicals are from methodists, baptists, presbyterian, pentecostal, etc. other than evangelicals put a premium on discipleship.

Ang gulo ng terms, no? But I don't think any of these should claim that they are "better" than the others simply because the church does not exist to exalt itself. Rather, it was founded to exalt God.

Sometimes, I hear people make nasty comments about my faith. And it does hurt. But then, there are also some evangelicals who explicitly condemn in words and actions how others express their faith. And that also hurts kasi magiging cycle lang yun ng hurting and offending one another.

My closest friends are Roman Catholics. When they found out I got water baptized only last July, they were happy for me. Even my "saradong Katoliko" family showed that they support that decision. It took 3 years before I took that step of faith. For 3 years, alternately akong nag-attend ng mass and ng Sunday service. I prayed to God to lead me kung saan yung will Nya for me, kung saan ko Sya mas magloglorify. Hindi ba yun naman yung importante, to glorify Him, to bring Him all the praise He deserves? So I am here now, because this is where He wants me to be. I'm not saying that this is where all of us should be because His will for you may be different. But I am confident in where I am because I sought His will. All I want is to follow His heart.

Wala naman masyadong nagbago sa relationship ko with my friends. At least, that's what I think. Although now, they ask me to pray for them and mas open sila sakin ngayon when it comes to spirituality. Same topics pa rin naman pag magkakasama kami, but I avoid giving unsolicited advice. And when they talk about premarital intimacy, I shut up pero not in a way na mafeefeel nila na nagpapakaholy ako. I nod and smile lang. I don't think kasi na yun yung venue for rebuking, teaching, and spiritual counseling kung hindi man ako nag-aagree sa mga sinasabi nila. Also, I don't invite them to attend the church I go to, but I do encourage them to pray and to trust in God.

I guess, Caterpillar-Girl, we're going through almost the same thing. Siguro may fine tuning na nangyayari in our relationships pero sabi naman sa bible, "there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus". Therefore, we should just give less judgment and more love. You're an imperfect Roman Catholic and I'm an imperfect Evangelical Christian. Buti na lang, andyan si Jesus who's doing His sanctifying work in us.

[rianne_mallows]

nalalayo na ba sa topic or its just me?

@threadstarter

i've been in the same boat years ago.. i can totally relate dun sa feeling na OP ka na minsan kasi sila may sharing of God's words kahit kakain lang sa pantry..

at that time, i just listened... nung una kasi even though im listening, at the back of my mind, i push the very idea of another religion slowly creeping in my system...

pero that was only temporary.. since i dont want to push my friends away, i adjusted... i listened to their sharings just as i would have listened as if the topic is one that really interest me.. after a while, i came to realize that its not THAT bad.. there are always fun new things to learn and religion IMO, is no exception..

so relax... regardless if their just hyped about their new found happiness.. they're still the same friends you had...

and for the record, im still, and i think, will always be a Roman Catholic Christian same as you... 

[caterpillar-girl]

Mr Punch: Ah yes magis. I 've had 4 years of college life surrounded by Magis. I like that concept actually and try to practice that. Not sure how successfully though. But I will try to keep that in mind more often.

I can relate to Ms.Karr, in my present situation, and I like how she writes. I don't necessarily aspire to be her, but I can't actually say that "obviously her faith is not growing" because can't spiritual struggle be part of every Christian life? Some have found peace and total, wholehearted acceptance in their hearts for their faith. Good for them. I'm just saying the experience of spiritual growth has room for some kind of struggle. As you, and alwynne said, in an ideal state, every part of your life should be surrendered to God. That is, of course, an ideal state, one that some arrive at easily, while others, like, me don't.

And yes, while I don't wake up "excited" to go to Mass, is that so horrible? As my Jesuit friend so helpfully tells me, "You know, going to mass shouldn't feel like paying taxes." And I say, well Fr., sometimes that's just how it feels like. You know. Precisely like paying taxes. And is that so bad really? My guess is that most will say yes. And well me too I wish I didn't feel like that. But I still go to mass, every Sunday, and sometimes it's easy, sometimes I have to literally drag myself to go out when I would much rather sleep. Are feelings that relevant when I shut up (aside from this forum haha) and go to mass anyway?

I guess this reflects the envy I feel when my friends proclaim GOD IS SO AMAZING!!!!!!! so effortlessly while my faith seems to be so much work. But work that I can't, and don't want, to let go of. Anyhow, sorry for the rambling post. I suppose it's my attitude that needs readjustment? Haha. I don't know. Lord. There are many things I would like to say, but I don't know how.  I get so tired thinking about things.  Haha. I suppose that's just another thread no? "I struggle with my faith and yet I can't just seem to let go of it!" or "How do I grow in my Catholic faith?" something like that.  But thank you all, I appreciate the replies and hearing about your own faith.

[gentai_chan]

hmm..may freewill naman tayo in terms of choosing our religion..I mean if they have felt the Holy Spirit touched them through Christianity (Born again) then so be it. It's a matter of belief and I guess everyone of us has it. For me, Christianity is not based on religion. It's a life

Bible based, Peter, John, Paul and almost lahat ng disciples didn't bother about their spirituality until they met and accepted Jesus as their Leader. They all have flaws. Peter was hot headed, Paul a tax collector etc. But they chose to grow and let Him control their lives. Spiritual Maturity.

Siguro naman vice versa. Kung mga friends ko before let's say shy type, timid and then they turned out bandista/gangsters/atheist I would not question them at all na why did they become like this or that? I would ask myself the basis of our friendship in the first place. I mean acceptance is a major component for a relationship to work. As long as  hindi nila ko nasasagasaan or agrabyado, I will remain the same towards them. I don't need to be one of them though and I believe that they have to respect that as well. 

[1choi_ko9]

When it comes to religion....anybody can choose their own religion. Because Religion will not save you, its your relationshipwith God that will save you.

Born again christians maybe annoying but maybe they just skipped their old wrongdoings. You can still be your old self naman, kaso pili nalang. And for some born again christians they believed on things they learn from the bible. Hindi pilitan ang nangyari. Nagagawa na lang nila naturally na maybe yung old ways nila ay mali in the eyes of the Lord kaya they dont want to do it again. Siguro sa old ways nila walang nangyari maganda sakanila kaya they changed their ways. And dun sa newly changed ways eh naayos buhay nila...kaya yun na pinili nilang path. Hindi na nila nagagawa yung old ways nila dahil ayaw na nila balikan kung pano sila before na hindi naayos. Ganyan ang madalas na nangyayari eh.

Ako, pinanganak akong Catholic. But now sa isang christian/born again group na ako nagsisimba. No, hindi pa ako nagpapa baptized as one of them but soon. Kase im convinced. Madami ako natutunan na naiintindihan ko and nakikita kong mali sa teachings ng Catholic. I cant really say na its my religion now per se... But through them I learn to pray directly to God. And no, hindi ko naman kinukutsya ang may ibang beliefs, lahat tayo entitled sa kanya kanyang opinion. As I grow with the Lord (not with group I attend to), nakikita ng marami na nagbago ang pagkatao ko. Pero dhindi ko napapansin...sila lang nagsasabi. Before I used to be super sungit....now they tell me im more  mahinahon makipagusap etc... yung ganon ba...

Eto opinion ko lang and howI see these kind of bornagain groups:)

[airish_2]

I'm a catholic and i have a friend na born again but never nya pinafeel na maintimidate o "hey sumali ka sa amin feeling" correct me if i'm wrong is this happen sa mga bagong "Born Again" for what TS share kasi halos lahat ng friend nya nagpaconvert pero feeling nya na-oop sya so lahat yun bago pa lang wahh di ko maexplain ng maayos. Catholics are christians too nagbabangit din ako ng about kay gods. and i think wala yun kung ano religion pa nya i have friends na iba-iba religion and we get along kasi we don't talk about it specially kung alam namin na masasagasaan yung belief na isa't isa.

[Atheista]

hmm siguro hindi pa ninyo maintindihan kung anong diff ng dalawang eto?

may i take the explanation?

[curlyhair]

To know clearly why we go to our 'church' makes the difference.
Do we wake up Sunday morning excited to attend the mass (or worship service) because we want to bring our thanksgiving and highest worship to our good God, or we just want to have another feel good 'experience' where our spirit will be lifted up? 

I do not speak for everyone who goes to a Bible-believing church and listens to a Pastor preach, because not everyone walk their talk. Relationship with your God is a personal decision, and that is when you are truly ready to acknowledge that you cannot be on your own, and have that willingness to humbly step down from your throne and letting God take full control of your life. And having the desire to really get to know Him (not just about Him).

And if by now you are still reserving God only for Sunday, special occasions or only for times of desperate need-- like 'il call you when I need you or i'l see you when my schedule permits, maybe it's time that you re-evaluate who is this God that you are suppose to be worshiping, out of every good thing that He's done that you didn't even asked... doesn't He deserve more?

agree let God be the center of our life. and i think dapat mas maging masaya tayo when someone or when our friends change for the better. they're just obeying God's words, and let's ask God's guidance para eventually, God will also renewed our life as Christians.
Christian means follower of Christ

[kalaiyaan]

Hi TS,
Roman Catholic din ang foundation ko pero nung elementary ako nagsimula akong sumama sa mga pinsan ko na Methodist every school break kasali ako sa DVCS (daily vacation church school), nung nag highschool naman sumama na ako sa sunday service. Pero nung nag college na ako nahinto, sa catholic church na ako umaattend with my family.
Lumipas ang maraming taon, nakapag work ako local at abroad ganun parin. Sunday Catholic Mass.

Ok naman (feeling ko safe lang)

Mas iniisip ko yung carrer ko over spiritual growth nag decide ulit ako mag abroad.
Nagpunta ako ng SG naging napaka dali para sa akin ng lahat work, accomodation, friends, money.

Until sa MRT biglang may kumalabit sa akin.
sabi nya Advertising ka right? OO, sabi ko.
then nagpakilala na sya ewan ko biglang na recall ko sya kahit 1 subject ko lang sya naging classmate nung college.

At nag invite na nga sya na baka daw gusto kong dumalo ng care group.
ewan ko ulit, bigla nalang akong napa OO, tutal free naman ako.

Ganun na nga umattend ako, praise and worship, praying, sharing etc.
medyo hesitant pa ako tinanong ko ang sarili ko kung kaya ko bang seryosohin?
ang sagot NO! mas feel ko mag swimming, mag jogging at mag mall tour after work kaysa umattend parang nakakapagod kasi.

Sa makatuwid after that 1st appearance sa care group hindi na ako nagpakita.
Sa kabila ng lahat, itong si College schoolmate ay tuloy lang sa pag send ng morning prayers at Bible verses sa akin.

Hanggang, after a year bigla kong naramdaman yung tinatawag na SPIRITUAL THIRST.
At doon na ako nag decide na umattend ng care group every Thurs.
though yung sunday service, never ko pa napuntahan kasi Catholic church ako pag sunday.

At heto pa prior to that sa dinami-dami naman ng mapapasukan na co. dito e akalain mong ang boss ko ay Christian to the serious level, tipong most of the co's earning ni do-donate, at yung amo keri lang na hindi sya pumasok for the service of God. Bongga din ang bonus 3x salary at
every meeting Prayer pati ending.

At naramdaman kong God really really loves me and he wants me to take Him seriously.
Kaya ngayon Im joyful na nahanap ko na Sya at hinding hindi ko na Sya tatalikuran kahit kailan, although ang lakas ng pwersa ng kalaban ngayon.

at ngayon pinagpe-pray ko na pumayag na si hubby na mag sunday service kami sa hindi Catholic Church. Dahil gusto ko na talaga mag attend ng service nila.

the point is.... God really loves us and He will do everything for us to be saved

para kay TS, kagaya ko gusto ni God na mas mapalapit ka sa Kanya nasasaiyo nalang kung papaunlakan mo Sya, if you did maloloka ka nalang sa dami ng blessings na darating.

kakasabi lang ni boss share ko lang : A prayer shouldnt be a burden but a joyful experience with God.

sorry napahaba, pasensya na kung magulo ako magkwento.


Matthew 4:19

[gentai_chan]

^Praise God 

[akthung]

I'm Catholic. Always have been, and, I suspect, always will be. Now, it seems like a lot of my friends are slowly becoming Christians. CCF, New Life, Victory, what have you. It would be all right but now they're so goddarn wholesome! And perky! I don't know which bothers me more. They don't even drink anymore! And we don't even talk about the usual stuff, like men, or, heaven forbid, sex. And always I feel bad, like I'm the spiritually stunted, ungrateful person just because I don't say "God is AMAZING!!!!" every so often.

Is there no other way to get around this than by making new friends? Just chuck it up to, "Well sometimes you outgrow people and people outgrow you, so deal with it. " I realize I just maybe want to vent also. Haha. Hay Lord.

wala namang masama kung nag born again lahat sila.

the peeps that i hang out with nowadays are predominantly born again christians. ang mahalaga sa akin, is nagkaroon sila ng positive change. inabot ko din kasi yung panahon na hindi sila born again. alam nila esoteric based ako. we respect each others belief. in fact minsan sumasama ako sa kanila pag sunday and bible study.

i believe na if one is a real spiritual person, makikita niya ang common denominator ng mga belief systems. we're not perfect, marami pa tayong matututunan.

a lot of the peeps na kilala kong napaka refined and cultured are born again christians.

sa esoteric kasi maraming nalulunod sa paghahanap ng power. and most of them are not aware na ganun sila. nalilimutan na nila ang totoong spirituality. kaya ayun nacocorrupt. they think they know all.

of course meron din mga utak ipis na hindi marunong magrespect ng ibang paniniwala.
hindi mawawala yan sa mga grupo.

try and see where your friends are sis, who knows you might like it. when life improves, you'll really be happy.

if its not for you, its not for you.

[airish_2]

^aww.. regardless ng religion di ba dapat alam nya how to respect.

[cuteapril_1215]

TS, I would like to ask you the following questions so that I can understand your post better. :-)

1. Since they became Christians, did they somehow offended you or your faith in a way that made you feel what you're feeling right now?

2. Did they tried to persuade you to to follow them in their faith?

[germaine]

most of my friends in college are born-again Christians, they asked us to join Bible studies and joined their services and at times I obliged.  I see nothing wrong with their faith and they also respected me being Roman Catholic.   We coexisted naman and until now we are still friends.   It really boiled down to the foundation of your faith, kung pano ka pinalaki ng parents and grandparents mo.  I grew up hearing every night the stories of the lives of the Saints from my Lola and I admired their faith. 

[anabatuta]

Ako, Born Again Christian na since Birth.

Ilang beses na ako pumalya - meaning, may mga times na nawawala ko si Lord sa sytem ko.
Pero totoo yung post ng isang sis natin about Spiritual thirst.

Friends ko halos R. Catholic. And hindi ko sila hinihikayat sa Chruch , nahihiya ako na ma offend ko sila. Nahihiya ako na baka itakwil nila ako or sabihan ako na "feeling holy"..
But NO. Dahil kung mahal mo ang kaibigan mo, kung mahal mo ang kapwa tao mo, dapat lang na i-share mo sa kanila kung ano ang nalalaman mo. Pero that time, pahapyaw lang ako mag share sa kanila.. until one day/last year (after 3 years) nagkita ulit kami and 3 sa kanila, nagpa baptized na.

Catholics are Christians. May mga pagkakaiba lang tayo sa paniniwala.

Hindi ka mase-save ng religion mo.. Why? SALVATION IS INDIVIDUAL Hindi by groups yun.

Para sa TS:

Agree ako sa adv ni Mr. Punch.. "Take your Catholic faith seriously".