Gallbladder Flush for Gallstones

[eischied_21]

^^^ sis, sobrang liit lang parang butas pa-cross ang hati for Lap Chole. 3 holes sa tummy then maliit na horizontal line sa bandang navel.

[fionnah325]

mga sis i need your advise..yong partner ko kasi parang may ganyan din na sakit umiinom lang siya ng apple juice nakaktulong kaya yan?sabi ng doctor ipapa opera nalang daw niya para mawala pero siguro naman diba may ibang way kung paano mawala yong stone na yon?

[binggay]

^ There is no other way to get those stones out other than surgery. Hindi yan katulad ng kidney stones na pwedeng mailabas.

also, when surgery is done, hindi lang stones ang tinatanggal, buong gall bladder na.

[prettyndistress]

I used to have a Bluecross card that take care of all my medical needs because I was employed before. Suki ko na St. Lukes at BGC and I have been admitted there several times. Now iba na, I'm no longer an employee but ran a small business...then nagka medical problem ako.

It's been 2-3 months that I have noticed decreased in food intake. Lagi ako nag burp and small amount of food will make my tummy bloated. Sometimes I have to vomit what I ate coz the bloatfullness is killing me.

Just last week I had a sudden pain on my lower right rib, my stomach feels like having dysmenorrhea without the period. So,I rushed myself to the nearest hospital which is Manila Doctors and was in the ER for several hours. I was given IVs and lots of stuff and they discharge me of "acute pancreatitis" though the doctor told me to follow up with a Gastroenterology. It cost me 5k+ at the ER and the pain never went away when they discharge me.

2 days later the pain increased and I went to see a Gastro at Manila Doctors and the doctor told me to have an ultrasound,there they found I have gallstones inside my gallbladder.

*If you are on a budget you can do your ultrasound at diagnostic center like the one just outside of Manila Doctors. It cost only P1500 for my ultrasound at Hi-Precision.

I went online and do some research regarding gallstones and gallbladder and which hospital is cheaper. Syempre wag naman yun pipichugin hospital. I read online that Laparoscopic Cholecystectomy in St. Lukes BGC cost 99,500. I called them and they told me it's a "promo".. nakakatawa lang kasi yun term na "promo" parang there are many people availing this kind of surgery and to my surprise marami nga..kaya pala "promo".. lol.. :lol:

I went to St. Lukes BGC and was referred to a surgeon. As far as I know, if alam mo na may gallstone ka and need operation it's best to speak with a Surgeon rather than a Gastro kasi they don't operate on their patients but a surgeon does. So instead paying for more visits sa Gastro derecho ka na lang consultation sa Surgeon. The doctor I was referred to at BGC told me na meron nga yun 99,500. However, (may disclaimer talaga) he doesn't used daw yun *something something* kelangan daw nya gamitin yun rubber stuff para sa operation para daw hindi madulas. So, that is extra charges on top of the 99,500 and so on and so on.. Also the "promo" sa St. Lukes puts you in a 3 bed ward and cannot be upgraded to a private room. I'm quite picky when it comes to recovery so I went to 2 other hospital afterwards.

My second stop is back at Manila Doctor and I was referred to a surgeon that does Laparoscopic surgery. He quoted me 120k and still have to share the ward with another person. Well, at least this time wala kaartehan yun doctor na kesyo need nya to use this and that for my operation that I have to pay more for it.

My third stop is at Metropolitan Hospital (Masangkay st. Manila near Lucky Chinatown). I was referred here by one of my best friend sabi nya marami good (good looking :glee:) doctors na [textspeak!]-Chi. lol... wala naman ako nakita. hahaha. So I went to the hospital and there I met Dr. Bienvenido Tan. Super bait super nice to talk to and he quoted me 100k and he said pwede pa ma less if I have Phil Health. syempre, tagal na ako hindi naghuhulog ng Phil Health, but after this encounter I'm thinking of doing self contribution to my Phil health. Also, the difference between a 3 ward room and a regular private room is only 1k. meaning pwede ko pay yun difference ng room on top of the 100k. unlike sa BGC firm na no upgrade. 

Of all the doctors I went to, I have to say sobrang gaan ng feeling ko kay Doctor Tan. I feel safe if si Doc yun mag operate sa akin. Price is no longer an issue now, it's more on feeling na magaan na loob ko kay Doc. So he explained to me what needs to be done and when ako mag admit sa hospital. He also explained to me that the machine at Metropolitan came from Germany and bago pa.

So in the end I had my Laparoscopy surgery at Metropolitan Hospital.

[prettyndistress]

It was Saturday I first met Dr. Bienvenido Tan at Metropolitan hospital. I showed him my ultrasound and he explained to me why I need to have a laparoscopic cholecystectomy. He made me inhale, hold my breath and he lighly push my right abdomen, napa "ouch" ako and that is a sign of a bad gallbladder. He was very patient explaining to me what is a gallbladder, what will happen if nahulog yun gallstones..etc.etc. nag joke sya in between and hirap talaga mag laugh kasi ang sakit na ng right ribs ko. I told him I'm on a budget but wanted my own private room and he is very easy to talk to. Eto pala yun drawing ni doc.

http://i.imgur.com/VeU2oXM.jpg

*At St. Lukes BGC the doc there used an ipad to demo, kay Doc Tan nag drawing sya... between ipad and the drawing mas prefer ko yun drawing ni Doc. 


There are tests that needs to be done before one can undergo a surgery. These tests are: ECG, Chest x-ray, PT, PTT..etc. these test wouldn't cost more than 4k, well at least for me,it cost less than 4k for my pre-surgery examination. 
I admit myself Monday afternoon for my surgery the next day 9AM at the Metropolitan Hospital..  I was able to eat pero no more heavy meals. Actually from the time you knew you have gallbladder issue, it's best to keep your diet low-fat until your surgery is over. 9PM Monday night the nurse came into my room and gave me IV drop, By 12 midnight no more food na and no more water,basically wala na pwede ipasok sa mouth ko after 12 midnight. So before 9pm,nakaligo na ako para di na ako mahirapan the next day.

The next day, a nurse came into my room and wanted to give me antibiotic (I think yun yun) before my surgery. Buti na lang I ask if masakit and she said yes and gave me another option of mixing the anibiotic sa IV drop ko. buti na lang I asked if not, I really cannot tolerate the pain.

About 8AM, I was rolled into the Operating Room. eto na yun fun part. At first, I was crying na coz you know im scared. When I was lying inside the OR,nandun na yun mga doctors ko and the anesthesiologist. One doc said "ang ganda mo naman,pakilala kita sa kapatid ko", syempre na blush naman ako.. :bashful: Then they were talking to me like parang you met a guy in a bar lang conversation. Sobrang nawala yun kaba ko, nawala yun feeling scared. Then they made me inhale something and poof I was asleep na.


The next thing I know is I was at the recovery room and dumalaw pa yun yaya ko then I fall asleep again. Then later I was in my room resting na. Here is a glimpse of my private room.

http://i.imgur.com/0eajhm4.jpg


Later, I'll make kwento regarding my post operation.. I'm on my 7th day pa lang kaya medyo need ko pa ng rest. Chow!

[fittotravel]

@prettyndistress: Hmmmm... Good to know that your surgery went well. I would just like to comment on your statement na " if alam mo na may gallstone ka and need operation it's best to speak with a Surgeon rather than a Gastro kasi they don't operate on their patients but a surgeon does. So instead paying for more visits sa Gastro derecho ka na lang consultation sa Surgeon."

Thing is, there's no way for us to know for certain kung may gall stone tayo unless ma-evaluate ng doctor with their history, physical exam, and other ancillary procedures. At hindi naman lahat ng gall stones na nasa gall bladder, kailangang tanggalin. So it really makes sense to seek consult with a gastroenterologist first. Kung sa evaluation niya, tingin niya kailangan ng surgical intervention, he'd refer you naman to a surgeon.

[SOFIEMAE]

^i agree

[cutemama]

I think may point si sis prettyndistress.. si  surgeon pa rin ang may final decision if need na talaga ng operation or not..

[prettyndistress]

@prettyndistress: Hmmmm... Good to know that your surgery went well. I would just like to comment on your statement na " if alam mo na may gallstone ka and need operation it's best to speak with a Surgeon rather than a Gastro kasi they don't operate on their patients but a surgeon does. So instead paying for more visits sa Gastro derecho ka na lang consultation sa Surgeon."

Thing is, there's no way for us to know for certain kung may gall stone tayo unless ma-evaluate ng doctor with their history, physical exam, and other ancillary procedures. At hindi naman lahat ng gall stones na nasa gall bladder, kailangang tanggalin. So it really makes sense to seek consult with a gastroenterologist first. Kung sa evaluation niya, tingin niya kailangan ng surgical intervention, he'd refer you naman to a surgeon.

I was kinda on a budget (sort of) and the Gastro doctor na I was referred to is kinda old. hehe.. As in old like almost 60 na yata. lol.

I knew I have gallstones yun nagpa ultrasound ako, coz the doctor who did my ultrasound told me she saw 2 gallstones at 1.4cm and 1cm. Medyo big sya. After that, I went online and did a lot of research like a lot of research.

Upon research I found that one option of taking out gallstones is through Laparoscopic Cholecystectomy and this is done by a surgeon. Same time I learned that General Surgeon is not "general" like they operate on everything on a human body. Oh-ha dami ko natuto sa medical field on my gallbladder quest. hahahaha...

From wiki: General surgery is a surgical specialty that focuses on abdominal contents including esophagus, stomach, small bowel, colon, liver, pancreas, gallbladder and bile ducts, and often the thyroid gland (depending on local reference patterns). They also deal with diseases involving the skin, breast, soft tissue, and hernias.

So when I learned this, my thought is that I should go to a surgeon instead of paying for another Gastro visit. yun lang po yun naisip ko kung bakit di na ako bumalik sa Gastro.

After my surgery my doc showed me my gallbladder, my gallbladder is already inflamed at may "na-na" na. The ultrasound found 2 stones, the surgery took out 3 big stones.

According to the explanation of all the surgeon I went to. Gallstones cannot be flushed out by apple cider or whatever home remedies online. The moment those stones push its way out of the gallbladder dapat mag panick ka na. There is no way that stones is going to travel through the duct and out your @ss.. it's best the rest should be explained to you by a doctor. At first I was really afraid of surgery lalo na it's costly for someone who doesn't have a health insurance. But after the explanation from the doctor I decided na I will go through with the surgery.

[fittotravel]

I'm not trying to argue with you, ha?    It's your prerogative if you want to consult with a surgeon right from the get go. But it is not right to generalize that all persons with cholelithiases (stones in the gall bladder) will require a surgical consult. Also, not all surgical consults will automatically translate to an actual operation.

In cases were a non-surgical approach is deemed beneficial, a surgeon MIGHT just send you home with medications and ask you to observe for signs and symptoms of a possible obstruction (something that  gastroenterologists can also do).

My point is, googling things will just raise your anxiety level even further rather than ease it. More often than not, patients' "research" causes panic more than peace of mind.  Trust me, I've had patients coming to me with an intro something along the lines of, "Doc, I've read somewhere that blah blah blah..." On most occassions, all these patients need is a reassurance from their self-inflicted worries rather than an actual prescription. 

[prettyndistress]

^@fittotravel- Doc, I wasn't arguing po.. peace po tayo..

I did went to a Gastro naman po from the very start, it's just that the doctor is very very old na. hehe nagkataon lang po na I did some research kaya I consulted a surgeon after I got my ultrasound result.

Speaking of gallstones and the flushing method. I actually wanted to believe na pwede mangyari yun like what I have read online. I was hoping that I didn't have to go through a surgery and just flush it out. I was on a budget and as much as possible mas mura yun apple cider kesa sa 100k++ na surgery. I don't have phil health and I'm not employed. Kaya I was hoping that doctors would tell me "try mo apple cider".. pero hindi nga ganun nangyari..

Doc, correct me if I'm wrong.. Gallstones can travel out of the cystic duct to the common duct pero hangan dun na lang, right? I was told and as per my research once the gallstone fell out of the gallbladder to the duct medyo  critical na yun kalagayan ng patient. Becasue the stone is now blocking the bile from flowing through the duct. Well if that is the case, how can anyone claim that gallstone can travel through the duct and out to the digestive system and poop it out?

[eischied_21]

^yes, this is true. stone can travel from your gallblader to your common bile duct. this is what happened to me. Laparoscopic Chole can't be done to remove the stone out of the bile duct. So ang nangyari saken 2 procedures, ERCP for the bile duct and Lap Chole for the gallbladder. Yun ERCP is may tube na insert sa mouth mo down to your esophagus, stomach until it reach the bile duct but this will be done under sedation. Also, pag may stone na sa bile duct, one of the effects is jaundice which is mag yellow yun skin mo and eyes. Before ang nararamdaman ko is stomach pain then after few minutes vomit. Naexperience ko yun for 6 months hanggang I was diagnosed of gallstones. Pero yun pinaka last na attact na feeling ko is yun feeling na napaupo na ako sa sakit na parang sinasakal ako. Siguro kun may kasama ako that time sa bahay nagpa-ER na ako. Sobrang sakit talaga. And feeling ko yun na yun nag move yun stone from gallbladder to bile duct.

Actually its a long story, ang priority that time is to remove the stone first on the bile duct kasi nga nagyeyellowish na yun mata ko but unfortunately the ERCP was unsuccessful. They failed to remove the stone on my bile duct because of obstruction daw. That was done by the gastro, and was referred to surgeon afterwards. I did transfer to the Surgery Ward and was referred to a surgeon. The surgeon's suggestion is to undergo ERCP again which I was hesitant because of what had happened even different doctor ang gagawa. Grabe rin yun trauma na nangyari saken that time. Ang ginawa ko nagpa-discharge na lang muna ako sa ospital and plan ko na lumipat na lang ng ibang hospital and humingi ng 2nd opinion sa ibang surgeon.

Then ERCP din ang ni-recommend ng 2nd hospital but surgeon na ang gagawa ng ERCP which I agree. I did the same procedure again prior the treatment, ultrasound, MRI, ECG, etc. And to my surprise hindi nakita yun stone sa bile duct ko sa result ng ultrasound and MRI. The doctor predicted na baka na flush out. Pero ang ginawa ko nun after nagpa-discharge dun sa 1st hospital, kumain ako ng apples and dole apple juice. May nakita rin ako na apple vinegar sa supermarket kaya bumili ako ng 1 bottle nun nagpa-admit na ako sa 2nd hospital. Kaya I super agree na apples is really powerful for gallstones and naniwala na ako sa "an apple a day keeps the doctor away" lol. Eto po ang whole story ng gallstone ko.

[fionnah325]

^ wala po bang herbal nito na pwede inumin para mawala ang stone?

[eischied_21]

^alam ko wala. Try eating more apple and fresh apple juice and avoid eating fatty foods.

[binggay]

^^ Imagine what happened to you Sis Eschied_21, because of a single stone na nakalusot from gall bladder to the bile duct. And yet others say they were able to flush out many stones due to gall bladder flush? Kaya hindi ako naniniwala dito eh. Kasi kung na-flush nila lahat yun from the gall bladder, pano nailabas yun from the bile duct na ganun karami na hindi man lang bumara?

[eischied_21]

^not sure din. Hindi na rin ako nagtry mag flush kasi may symptoms na talaga yun gallstones which is stomach ache and vomit kaya nun nalaman ko nagpa lap chole na ako. Nahihirapan na rin ako dun sa symptoms that time.

[DocShe_713]

Just want to contribute my 2 cents. Gallbladder flush is not advisable. As discussed , it stimulates the gallbladder and sometimes when the stone comes out it can get stuck in the common bile duct and when that happens, surgery is more complicated.

[EllaBratin]

Thank you sa mga stories ninyo. ☺
Last July, around 8pm, dinala ako sa ospital dahil sa sobrang sakit ng tyan. Binigyan ako ng shots ng buscopan tapos reseta ng esomeprazole. Around 3am sumumpong na naman ang sakit kaya nagpa-admit na ako. Sabi ng doctor ganun din ang ibibigay nya sa aking gamot pero inadvise nya ako na magpa-whole abdominal ultrasound. Noong nasakit pa rin, pinalitan ng pantoprazole ang gamot ko. Cholelithiasis with adenomyomatosis and/or cholesterolosis ang naging impression sa ultrasound. Pero hindi ko makakalimutan ang sinabi ng doctor na nag-ultrasound sa akin na hindi un ang reason kung bakit nasakit ang tyan ko. Tinuunan nya kasi ang isang part ng tyan ko at tinanong kung masakit, sabi ko hindi. Kaya nagulat na lang ako at nirefer ako ng doctor ko sa surgeon. Tinanong ko pa si surgeon kung kailangan ko ba ng operation agad. Ang sagot niya sa akin "don't worry, covered naman ng card mo". Hanep sa sagot! Lap-chole din ang offer niya pero sabi ko hindi pa ako ready. Hindi rin niya inadvise ang flushing dahil mas delikado daw kung bumara sa duct. So iwas daw ako sa fatty food. October na ngayon at di pa rin ako nagpapaopera, thank God at hindi naman ako sinusumpong. Basta hindi ako nawawalan ng gaviscon at buscopan in case of emergency.

[sweetsmyl]

Nawawala pain sa buscopan? I take Omeprazole and Domperidone...may acid reflux din kasi ako. Still not decided magpa lap chole. No budget din. Hehe.

[EllaBratin]

^Naaagapan ko kasi sis, kapag iba kasi ang pakiramdam ko umiinom agad ako kaya hindi na tumutuloy ang sakit. Pero nung nasa hospital ako hindi talaga umeepekto kaya tinurukan na rin ako ng pantropazole.