Dual citizenship - ok ba?

[twentysomething gal]

ECC >> http://immigration.gov.ph/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=205&Itemid=43

I just know that If I use the recognition ID (dual citizenship) when I enter, they would not let me pass thru the immigration counter when I leave the Phil without paying the "fees". I get redirected to that little cashier window on the right and get charged for the "fees". According to the website, it's a re-entry permit fee/ Emigration fee of some sort. I've questioned and fought it before, but nobody was able to explain it properly to me. Of course, what else can you do if you have a flight to catch? 
According to the travel.state.gov website, if you intend to stay in the Phils. for more than 21 days, you need to apply an extension permit from the Immigration bureau in Intramuros, and will probably pay some fees as well. But don't trust me on that. Nothing is set on stone when it comes to the Phil government and their magical "fees".

so either way, you will pay a fee. I guess if you use your recognition ID you get the convenience of paying it  in the immigration counter in the airport, rather than going to intramuros.

[grumpybear]

napa-research tuloy ako. LOL
My kids are dual citizens but I don't have Phil. passports for them. What I have is a copy of their Registration of Birth from the Phil. Consulate. Do I need to bring this along or do I just shut my mouth and just present their US passports?
Also, I am not a dual citizen yet because I just got my naturalization papers. Ang plan ko is to just deal with the dual citizen stuff AFTER we travel. So in this case, I just avail of the Balikbayan Visa, right?

[twentysomething gal]

hi grumpybear

let's wait for other gt members here who are more knowledgeable about your case. I was dumbfounded when you mentioned the balikbayan visa. didn't help that hubby was scratching his head as well. I need to research more!  LOL! sorry!

[grumpybear]

yun na nga eh. Everytime I'm at NAIA, feeling ko nahoholdup ako. LOL

[stayfree]

I just know that If I use the recognition ID (dual citizenship) when I enter, they would not let me pass thru the immigration counter when I leave the Phil without paying the "fees". I get redirected to that little cashier window on the right and get charged for the "fees". According to the website, it's a re-entry permit fee/ Emigration fee of some sort. I've questioned and fought it before, but nobody was able to explain it properly to me. Of course, what else can you do if you have a flight to catch? 

You will pay an Emigration Certificate of Clearance (ECC) fee upon departure from the Philippines only if you arrived using a foreign (e.g. U.S.A.) passport + recognition ID.

But if you used a Philippine Passport when you arrived, or a combination of foreign passport + Phil. Passport,  then no more ECC fee will be collected when you depart.

So if you want to avoid the ECC fees, everytim you go home and leave the Phils., get a Philippine Passport and use that upon arrival. 

HTH.

[annestacey]

i'm a dual citizen.  i was born in america but i have filipino citizenship so that i can inherit land and hold land titles.  (my dad only applied for u.s. citizenship in 1984 a year after i was born so because of jus sanguinis i was allowed to have philippine citizenship).  i went to the san francisco philippine embassy and filled out a report of a birth from abroad form....then ended up getting a philippine passport,etc.

prior to holding a filipino passport, the filipino immigration officers at naia told me that i'm only allowed to stay 21 days in the philippines.  if i had been born in the philippines like my u.s. citizen parents who are balikbayan, i can stay 1 year without paying fees.  one time, i made the mistake of going to jakarta from manila and forgot my philippine passport (just brought my u.s. passport)!  when i got back to manila, the filipino immigration officers at naia said i can only stay 3 weeks (when i intended to stay in manila for 1-2 years for school), it was such a hassle because i had to go to intramuros and bring my philippine passport to get stamped so i wouldn't pay fines.

i bring my philippine passport and american passport with me whenever i fly into manila but when i fly to the u.s., i only show my blue american passport.

[stayfree]

My kids are dual citizens but I don't have Phil. passports for them. What I have is a copy of their Registration of Birth from the Phil. Consulate. Do I need to bring this along or do I just shut my mouth and just present their US passports?
Also, I am not a dual citizen yet because I just got my naturalization papers. Ang plan ko is to just deal with the dual citizen stuff AFTER we travel. So in this case, I just avail of the Balikbayan Visa, right?

I assume you are a Phil Passport holder, while your kids have a US Passport?  If that is the case, then you can enter using Phil Passport -- no need for visa -- and you can stay indefinitely. 

Your kids can enter using US Passport and stay for 21 days with no penalty.  But if you bring along their Registration of Birth (certified by Phil. Consulate in the US), and show it to the Phil I/O upon arrival, then your kids can stay indefinitely also, though I'm not so sure on that. 

Best scenario is to bring it along and show it to I/O and ask the I/O upon arrival if your kids can stay indefinitely too.  At the same time, you can use that document (registration of birth) to apply for a Phil. Passport for your kids while you're in Manila.   Your kids can then use their new Phil Passports to leave Manila. 

HTH.

[grumpybear]

I assume you are a Phil Passport holder, while your kids have a US Passport?  If that is the case, then you can enter using Phil Passport -- no need for visa -- and you can stay indefinitely. 

Technically my Phil. passport is now invalid because I've taken my US naturalization oath. But I've talked to the Phil. embassy na and they said to just present my old one and we can stay for up to a year. Ito nga yung tinatawag na Balikbayan visa.
[/quote]

[twelve5]

the last time i travelled to manila, i presented my US passport. i didnt say anything about DC... and didnt ask for a balikbayan visa.

stayed over a year, so i had to pay P1,620 travel tax (per travel agent)... and presented my IC to the immigration officer when i left.

(actually, she asked for it because i overstayed and she advised me to just have my IC photocopied in color so i would not have to bring the original with me whenever i travel.)

[grumpybear]

Does IC stand for immigration card? Is this to denote that you are also a Filipino citizen?
If that is the case then I don't have one yet because I haven't applied to retain my Philippine citizenship yet. So technically, I am just a US citizen hence the need for me to avail of the Balikbayan visa in order for me to be able to stay longer than 21 days.

[twelve5]

^ when you apply for reaquisition of filipino citizenship, after the oath and all, you will be given 3 pcs of paper: 

oath of allegiance
order of approval
identification certificate

its the last document that you present to immigrations. it has your photo, signature, thumbmarks and IC number.

(super pathetic kasi bond paper lang sila. a far cry from the US naturalization cert that we're given. imo, for things like this, dapat naman sturdier paper ginagamit. reklamador ako. hehe)

[grumpybear]

thanks! It costs $50 to apply for the retention of Filipino citizenship, right? May iba pa bang fees after nito?

[twelve5]

^ as far as i remember, wala ng ibang fees.

but if and when you decide to apply for it na, be sure to check out the dfa or embassy's website or call them for requirements baka kasi may bago.

[stayfree]

Technically my Phil. passport is now invalid because I've taken my US naturalization oath. But I've talked to the Phil. embassy na and they said to just present my old one and we can stay for up to a year. Ito nga yung tinatawag na Balikbayan visa.

Why should it be invalid?  The US may frown on dual citizenship, but the Philippines recognizes it.

Under Republic Act 9225, former natural-born Filipinos who became naturalized citizens of other countries are deemed not to have lost their Philippine citizenship.

So even if you just took your oath and are now an American Citizen, you are also automatically a Filipino Citizen due to RA 9225.  Automatic yan, you DON'T nee to do anything.

Renew mo lang yang Philippine Passport mo and you're good to go. 

[twelve5]

^ i dont think the retention is automatic. accdg to the RA, one must take the oath of allegiance.

then as proof of taking the oath you are given a document (oath of allegiance) thats signed by the consul or vice consul and notarized by an atty.

[grumpybear]

Why should it be invalid?  The US may frown on dual citizenship, but the Philippines recognizes it.

According to the Philippine embassy, once you've taken the oath, you are not recognized as Filipino until you've taken the oath of allegiance to the Philippines again - which comes after you apply for retention/reacquisition of Philippine citizenship.

Here's the exact passage from the RA that you mentioned:

Natural born citizens of the Philippines who, after the effectivity of this Act, become citizens of a foreign country shall retain their Philippine citizenship upon taking the aforesaid oath.

(bolding mine)

[stayfree]

twelve5 and grumpybear, I agree with you that that is the letter of Philippine law-- once you naturalize, you are no longer a Filipino citizen.  But the implementation is another matter.

My dad, who was naturalized way back in 1973, never took time to reaquire his Filipino citizenship when RA 9225 came into effect.  What he did, though, was he kept renewing his Philippine passport, thus keeping it current.  So in his mind, he never lost his Filipino citizenship.  I guess no one in the embassy bothered to find out if he was already naturalized, and just allowed his to keep renewing his [textspeak!]. passport all these years. 

Anyway, I guess what I'm pointing out is that this may be a grey area after all, especially with RA 9225 in effect now, and until a really big case comes out and the Supreme Court rules with finality on such matters, it is something that can be interpreted/implemented/abused in more ways than one.

And while I'm at it, I also said that the US frowns on dual citizenship, because, AFAIK, the official US State Department stand is that it does not favor dual citizenship as a matter of policy, but "accepts" that it is a fact of life -- too many people have it that they cannot pursue each and every person even if they wanted to.

Have a good day. 

[twelve5]

^ i wish nga na automatic na lang para i didnt have to pay $50. 

plus the traffic going to embassy, getting a safe parking spot and waiting for the oath-taking can all be avoided sana. hehe

[grumpybear]

Yes, that is true that the implementation may be a bit difficult because how can they keep track nga naman of everything, lalo na napapansin ko with all the business that I do with the Phil. Embassy eh mukhang hindi pa sila computerized at manual lahat.
However, I disagree that it is a grey area. The RA is very clear that you have to take the oath in order to retain/reacquire your Phil. citizenship. And in order to be scheduled for the oath, one has to complete the form and pay the fee. I don't see any grey areas there.
Yes, it is an inconvenience lalo na sa amin where the nearest consulate is thousands of miles away but it is a small price to pay to have the privilege of being recognized Filipino again, IMO. And in the same way that I strive to be a law-abiding citizen of the US, the desire to be a law-abiding Filipino is also there. So para sa akin, if those are the requirements, then so be it. Kailangan kong gawin ng tama.

[stayfree]

^ i wish nga na automatic na lang para i didnt have to pay $50. 

HAHA. Yeah.  Oo nga.  I feel the same way.  Sometimes, I feel that the part about re-aquisition is all about making money for the gov't. 

RA 9225 could have just made re-aquisition mandatory for those who got naturalized before the law's existence (Aug. 2003?).  While for those who got naturalized after Aug(?) 2003, automatic that they did not lose their Filipino citizenship, thus no more need to reacquire.  <SIGH>   Makes more sense di ba -- less hassles and less paperwork for everyone.